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Which one? F430, Calif T, or 458

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by KingFishMB, Nov 1, 2017.

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  1. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If in 3 years the difference between a 430 and 458 is $25K then 430s will be stacking up on lots like cordwood and the wait list for trade in 458s will be about 10 years ;)

    IF the economy stays friendly my crystal ball shows nice 458s at 150K and 430s at 85K.
    "The last of the N/A V-8's" will keep 458 depreciation low and demand for them will push 430F1 prices lower.

    I have no dog in the race.
    Yet.
     
  2. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    metal driver, you and i have different ways of looking at things.
    enjoy your 458.
    i will enjoy my 430
     
  3. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    ok. calculate the stack then.
    newer cars have farther to fall than older cars, until they reach their bottom, wherever that is, but usually around 15 years in.
    the 430 is pretty much flat lined between 90 and 120k.
    the 360 is somewhere between 65-85k.
    the 458 is about 155-185 right now. so are you saying that the 458 will not decrease in price? are you saying that the 458 will decrease, but all the other dino's will decrease by equal amounts?

    all i have been trying to say since the beginning, is that my guess is that the 458 will cost more money to the owner by virtue of declining value, higher maintenance costs if things go pear shaped. whether that is 50k or 100k is debatable.

    but go ahead, show me how the 458 bought at 175k will not cost the owner more than owning a 430.
     
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  4. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    Just a point, cos I have never been one to worry about the costs of the cars I chose........... does anyone here really concern themselves with the potential for depreciation or costs of ownership when we decide upon buying one of these toy cars? Don’t we just fall in love with the car for the noise, handling, speed or colours, and anything goes regardless? I lost almost quarter million on my 612, still loved that car just the same, and I made forty k on the 458, loved it no more than I loved my 599

    Buy what you want to drive the way you want to drive it. Life is short, death Long, enjoy every day like it might be your last coz one day you will be right
     
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  5. bberg009

    bberg009 Karting

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    I have owned F430, 458 and now 488, and have learned that trading into a new model and holding it for about 5 years, costs me typically $65-$75k in depreciation (depending on how many miles I drive).

    So, with insurance (5 x $1.320), estimated depreciation over 5 years ($70k), and consumables like tires ($2400), with 12,000 miles (5 x 2,400), I think I pay around $6.58 per mile... and it is highly worth it...

    Naturally, with mid-aged cars (5-15 years) old, you would not expect as steep depreciation curbe.. What are you other guys paying per mile driven in your cars?
     
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  6. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    I wouldn’t know where to start calculating it, and I reckon if i tried to seriously monetise cars, I’d be shotgun in the mouth time over what I’ve ‘wasted’ on metal ....... worth every penny until you really think abo7t what you could have done with the money !
     
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  7. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    i am net positive. mostly because i resist buying the latest and greatest, and usually try to buy something when others dont want it.
    the worst dollars/mile cars have been the cadillac srx and the 456mgt. but i did like both of them, and they did serve their purposes.
    i reckon the srx cost me about $1-2/mile, and the 456 cost about $4-5/mile.
    almost everything else was close to net 0, or positive.
     
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  8. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    I know, I rarely used my brain when buying cars, there was a time I was so easy for my buddy when he ran the ferrari dealership, he’d ring me and say ‘hey, we just got a ................... come in, it’s awesome, come see it’ and I’d drive the 100 miles there that day, take it for a spin, arrive back at the dealership, tell them not to put it away and leave whatever I drove there and take the new car, all the while forgetting the part about ‘how much’ and just signing on the line for it. Nuts! Some great stuff though, some of which I should’ve kept I know and the story would be different (MC12, 250GT replica, Bugatti EB110SS, lots of manual Ferraris, F40, all sorts)
     
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  9. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    458 vs. F430?

    This sums it up pretty well:



    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  10. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    nuno. point well made.
    performance is epic.
    but there is the cost issue....
     
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  11. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I work like a dog for my toy money but guess if I had a steady BIG income priorities would be different. Also I am "self made". Whom typically tend to be cheap bastards that squeeze pennies till they scream ;)
    So incredibly enough cost (or more importantly ROI) of ownership is the first thing that crosses my mind. So far so good.
    My hat is off to all you that absorb the depreciation till I gets me mits on it. Remember; drive slowly, minimally and keep the services up to date !
    TIA.
     
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  12. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes and the gap between the 308 to the 328 to the 348 to the 355 to the 360 to the 430 to the 458 is always going to be huge.
    Next will be the 458 vs 488 which will make the 458 look like a snail.
    Which the 488 replacement will do to it.
     
  13. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    Hahaha. Touché. I understand. I think I’m just a bit of a dipstick then, because I’m not loaded to the point it doesn’t matter, far from it, but I’ve never wanted to take time thinking about the purchases, they’ve all been effectively knee jerk ‘just do it already!’


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  14. Afonsolaw

    Afonsolaw Formula 3

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    This pretty much sums it up for me as well lol
     
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  15. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    It's so much more than just a question of straighline speed.

    I've never seen Clarkson react to a car, any car, in that way. And I've never spoken to anyone (including longtime Ferrari personnel that has driven more different Ferraris over the years than I have socks in my closet) that hasn't been absolutely owned and mesmerized with the 458 compared to the F430 in terms of design, interior and cockpit build quality, gearbox, feel and sound.

    And you also have this:



    If you speak italian, you'll hear Mr. Cironi say, among many things, that "after driving the 458, the F430 feels like your grandfather's Fiat Panda".

    The 488 is a tweaked 458: it takes what the 458 does best, but faster and sharper. It's a beefed up 458 with much more power and it builds upon a very successful and engaging platform. The 458 is an unholy creature out of this world compared to the F430. My advice if I sound too harsh? Forget everything I've said and don't take my word for it: go drive them both.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  16. metaldriver

    metaldriver Formula Junior
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    Ross - you've driven your 430, obviously. Next time you're in Houston, come drive my 458. I live in Katy. We'll talk about cars and the oil industry, of which we are both patrons.

    Sent from my Moto G Play using FerrariChat mobile app
     
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  17. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    hi Andy, thanks for that offer. the 430 is stored over at driver's source at the moment since i have run out of garage space !
    i have driven the 458 a few times - wonderful car !
    have you tracked yours?
     
  18. metaldriver

    metaldriver Formula Junior
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    I tracked the 360 at COTA and I tracked the 458 at MSR. To do it again, the Modena is a better fit at MSR and the Italia is a better fit at COTA.

    Steve Ott at DS used to do a lot of work for me on the 360.
     
  19. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    yes steve is great. he did some work on the 430 and is now prepping the 456mgt.
     
  20. wrs

    wrs F1 Rookie
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    Well it looks like no one here has really driven the California T HS. I had one of the fastest 991TTS out there for 2 1/2 years but I had been looking at the Cali for a while because to me, they styling is very appealing. I had heard the comments about hairdressers, retired women and all the other negativity regarding the drivers / owners of a California. Truth be told, I drove the 458 and the Cali 30 and wasn't really impressed with either compared to my TTS, they both felt soft. I think that because of the lack of torque in the lower to middle of the rpm range it's hard to get on it in the city with them. Not so with the 991TTS which is also in your budget.

    I bought my Cali T HS new off the showroom in March and haven't missed all that low end power in the Porsche a bit. I also really, really like the convertible aspect of the car. There are a lot of faster cars than any of the three you are looking at, in fact they are all slow by comparison to the latest big wallet small dick man exotic cars out there. The HS feature adds a louder exhaust but not obnoxiously loud, includes magneride, improves up and down shifting speed and the car will blip loudly when upshifting on hard acceleration. The car corners under acceleration like it's designed to. With the Porsche you had to be careful in the corners not to goose it or to let off the gas, it was very persnickity. The Cali loves having some gas in corners so you can go in easy and hit it in the corners and come out screaming. Did I say I like that it's a convertible?

    The 458 will need a backup camera, the Porsche did and I have one on the Cali T but without the top, who needs it? Did I say I liked that it's a convertible? The turbo takes something away from the sound but the HS does a good job of adding it back and the turbo tuning is amazing. I think the 430 sounds fantastic but I would be unwilling to mess with the transmission, it's not close to what's available now. The 430 is a good looking car but lacks the tech in the 458 and Cali T. I think if I get a 458 it will be a 2015 Spider but I am leaning to the F12 for the NA experience. The Cali T HS is the best car I have owned so far. Trading it for something else will be hard to do. It's not the fastest or sexiest car out there but it gets a lot of looks and a lot of appreciation. It's a very good looking car in it's own right and did I mention it's a convertible?

    Another point to mention is that I have put 2700 miles on my car in the last 8 months so I have been driving it and it's been perfection other than a problem with the top initially which the dealership worked out. The Cali T HS is really a top of the line GT.
     
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  21. DrewH

    DrewH F1 Rookie
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    In my opinion the only reason to go with a 430 is if you are buying a stick shift. A 458 is so much more refined and better looking. A California reminds me of a women that bought it to go shopping.
     
  22. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    I guess it all comes down to $$$$ for a lot of folks.

    I would buy a 430 Scuderia ,run it for a couple of years ,then if the 458 settles at an affordable level most likely well under the future value of your Scud, you can think about trading down to a 458 ,or even potentially sideways to a 458 Speciale :).

    Unless you happen to be a hairdresser;)
     
  23. CaliforniaK

    CaliforniaK Rookie

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    And what, may I ask, is wrong with taking one’s California shopping???




    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  24. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Rookie
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    why is the 575 not an option? I just picked one up and to me they're the most beautiful Ferrari ever made. Their shape is iconic, they're super rare, you never see one on the road vs countless 430s and 458s and californias, at least out here in miami, those are everywhere. The 575 is really cheap to maintain, the major service is due every 5 years at around $2500 at an indy shop and the annual service is a couple hundred dollars. Theyre in the low 100s and id guess over 5 years from now they'd probably appreciate while the 430,458,cali all depreciate. Look at prices of 575s they're iconic and remember they made just over 2000 of them vs however many 15,000 430s and 458s.
     
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  25. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ

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    I loved my 575,and you are right, beautiful lines to them

    However, if someone is going for performance, the 599 and the v8’s are definately a few steps ahead on both speed and handling. I used to think my 575 was awesome at both until I bought my 599, and then the 458 blew even that into the weeds because of its better balance and drive ability
     

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