Which racing series does the fastest lap times?

Venturi tunnels are just that, more advanced diffuser. I think the rules allow diffusers because they are not under the car but behind it. You still get some of the effect but it would be greater with the tunnels.

 

AMEN!

 

Mr Payne,

You are not reading my responses. "Ground effects" is not just another term for downforce or have any thing to do with the front and rear wings. It is a term meaning that the sidepods of a race car are shaped to generate suction under the car, thus a particular method of creating downforce.

Yes F1 cars have down force ... but they are not allowed specifically to use the technology developed in the mid-'70's called "ground effects".

"Ground effects" is a name for a type of floor shape ... like Alfa Romeo is a name of a car.

Thus "ground effects" as the above floor and skirt design has well and truly been banned.

Now that does not mean the F1 teams cannot generate down force from other means. It simply means that they cannot have venturis in the side pods and skirts to channel the air and resulting suction. Hence the flat floor rule restriction. Now after the rear axle (I believe) you can do what you like ... hence the venturis/diffusers we see out the back of modern F1 cars.

You see the brilliance of "ground effects" is that it is a very low drag but high down force solution and thus very clever. BUT the negatives were extremely high spring rates (ie. no springs really, just tyre flex) and very bad loadings on the drivers.


Returning to your naive comment that F1 cars are simply faster than all others ...

Why?, do you persist with this childish view of the world. As Brian and others state, lets see lap time comparisons. F1 has rules and goals, so do other series ... they are completely separate and each have their individual advantages.

Now take a Le Mans car, enormous body surface to work with ... thus far superior platform to play with to generate downforce. Everything else is much the same as a F1 car ... except they have to grind on for 24 hrs.

Not long ago Peugueot Le Mans cars were hitting something like 345 km/h ... they were monsters, and with more downforce than a F1 car they could pull enormous G's around corners and thus have the potential for faster lap times. They also had full slicks ... but ofcourse the tyres had to last a decent number of laps, thus probably pretty hard compounds.

Theoretically the Le Mans car type design will simply be faster. Thanks to aerodynamics ... if everything else was even. Now ofcourse that does not necessarily equate to lap times, ie. visibility, etc. come in to play ... but again with all that body surface the Le Mans car design will generate more downforce and thus theoretically corner faster.

Back in the Can Am days the Can Am cars WERE faster ... Can Am race series no longer exists, but F1 is not alone, there are still other race series, thus it is absolutely possible that F1 is not the fastest, just the most glamourous and most expensive and rightly considered the top tier of motorsport. That does not mean they are the fastest.

Pete
ps: In the end comparing different race series lap times, etc. ... trying to find the fastest is about as pointless as counting pubic hairs. They all have different rules ... and nothing but the rules determines the resulting car performance.

Thus we might as well compare the rules and do a technical analysis about which car should end up being the fastest ... theoretically.

Thus F1 versus CART:

F1 is lighter.
F1 has smaller engines (CART are turboed, thus really over 5 ltrs once you have doubled their size).
F1 has larger wings.
F1 has grooved tyres.

CART is heavier ... by something like 200 kg's.
CART has bigger engines and thus potentially more powerful.
CART has not banned ground force, but they do not appear to run skirts, so thus they are not getting the full benefit ... thus who generates the most down force is debateable.
CART have real tyres.

Adding Le Mans prototypes ...
Le Mans prototypes ... will have to look up, but:
LM weight? ... assume heavier than F1, but maybe not CART?
LM engine size?
LM cars use ground force (?), but again no skirts I believe. I have read though that over ten years ago you could not breath during a corner such was the G's.
LM have real tyres.

Any others?

 

Why do you guys eqaute top speed to fast lap times!?

Highest top speed in a straight line does not mean fastest lap time. Handling around corners and turns, and acceleration plays a big role.

F1 would smoke the competition!

 

Ok.

The 2004 F1 cars are the fastest "track" cars ever produced. Fact.

Facts are childish? Lap times have been posted.

I've never said otherwise.

 

Considering that there is only something like 1 or maybe 2 tracks where a comparison is possible we have no real facts.

But I can accept laziness and assume what Bernie wants all the world to think ... ie. F1 is king
Pete

 

Damn Pete, getting cranky in your old age.

 

Always been cranky ... too late to change

Pete

 

i give up, lol

 

I'm pretty sure the Peugeot 905 was quicker than F1 around the faster circuits back when it ruled the roost in Group C. I remember one of the F1 drivers talking about it in the back of Evo magazine recently.

 

how would an F1 car do on the Dakar? or the Baja 1000

each vehicle performs to its designed parameters and to the rules in which they run.

apples to apples / oranges to oranges

 

Funny you should say that. I've got some videos of F3000, Formula 3, Formula Ford and even a 1993 Jordan Formula 1 car doing hillclimbs in Europe. Pretty amusing stuff, as they slide around tight corners and occasionally going off the track into fields, through fences. Stupidly dangerous, but fun to watch.

 

I have some clips of that too.....absolutely the craziest driving I've ever seen.

 

Perxactly ...

Pete

 

Yes it is quite crazy, i'd actually like to try it, lol

 

Switzerland has prohibited racing after the Le Mans crash 50 years ago. However time trials are still allowed and have become a popular venue. Being a hilly country, hillclimbs are the thing to do. And they do it in all kinds of vehicles.

Personally I never thought it was strange but even a somewhat "safe" thing because uphill you quickly loose speed if you have some mechanical failure.

I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

 

I would think there is way more things to hit, plus it may take longer for a safety crew to reach you if you go off. not too sure about that though i have no idea what the safety team is like.

 

a few cows...

 

At the Monterey Historics last August, the Ferrari test driver in Michael Schumacher's 2004 F1 car tried to set a new lap record. He missed it by about .5 second. A Champ car still holds the record. The Ferrari driver did not have a lot of practice time. With more practice or a different driver the results may have been different.

 

MOOOOOOO

 

I don't think there was an F2004 at the event. I thought the two factory run cars were an F2002, and an F2003-GA. I don't know which one set the quickest time, but I'd assume it was the F2003-GA.

 

Another venue for comparison would be the Goodwood Hillclimb where all kinds of different cars "compete" although driving might not always be flat out.

Currently the record still belongs (I believe) to Heidfeld (?) in a Mc Laren from a few years back. Current F1 would beat that, but they never go flat out, but do donuts for the crowd.

 

Well, all you F1 being faster than champcars on an oval guys. Anything to say now? lol, J/K couldn't resist. This weekend was a disaster.

 

LOL

I was actually thinking about this thread: F1 is fastest ... *IF* they drive.

I still can't even put in words on how disgusted I am about my favourite sport right now.