Which V-8 car will become the most desired

I see 308s and 328s appreciating during the coming years, simply because this is the car so many people think of when they think "Ferrari."

Remember that the 206 and 246 Dinos were scorned as not being "real Ferraris" when they were new, and that the highly sought-after original 308s were disdained because they were "plastic." (Glass-fibre)

As 308s become more and more scarce, even the least-desired 2v injected models will be in greater demand. (Although, of course, the original carbureted cars and the QV models will remain more desirable to those "in the know.")

 

A collector once shared the following observations with me:

1. Cars become collectable when the people who drooled over them in High School and College become empty nesters, and have discretionary income.

2. People buy old cars on emotion, they don’t do their research until AFTER they buy the car (how many of us became more passionate Ferrari details AFTER we became owners).

3. Open cars, even when produced in higher numbers, are more desired as collector cars (the Mercedes Gullwing is the most notable exception)

I think that Demand and not Supply will drive the next great wave. There are tens of Millions of people who were exposed to 308s, but only on Boards such as Fchat do we care about such things as the proper serial # of the 250 PF Cab used in a given movie. Buyers who are new to Ferrari won’t care about the subtle differences of a Glass car vs Steel; but they will want the Targa. I think the car to have will be the 1985 308 QV GTS.

 

Could be, although I've met plenty of 308 GTS owners who have told me that they'd have bought a GTB if they could have found one. They're rarer (particularly in QV form), some say prettier, and better handling.

 

The euro GTB is the visually-purest 308, year model really doesn't matter much in that repect.

But the GTS is just plain fun. One of these days I'll get an additonal targa top, painted to match the car.

 

Stop it guys, you're making my Euro GTBi QV blush!

BTW- thanks

Michael
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Who knows in 30 years a pristine F430 or 360 might be worth a premium due to the fact they will likley be rare.

 

If most desired is determined by value of the vehicle then production figures are an important consideration. We all know the higher the production the lower the value. I believe the low production numbers of the 246 Dino, 3,761 units, play a large role in its current value. The V8 cars are as follows; 308 12,149 units, 328 7,412 units, 348 8,212 units, 355 11,273 units and the 360 16,365 units. Surprisingly the 328 has the lowest volume of the production V8s. I think that will make them less available and therefore more desired/valuable then the other models.

 

As well it should. Beautiful!

 

Thank you, JSA330

That has some truth to it. There were 1,344 "328" GTB's, and 6,068 "328" GTS's produced. It should be worth noting that the "308" in the photo above is 1 of only 748 produced. It is also the fastest of all 308's (Euros are 400 pounds lighter, and QV is quickest). Additionally, the older any model gets, the fewer surviving numbers of remaining cars.

Desireability isn't just numbers. It has a lot to do with personal style and taste. For instance, many people prefer the look of the button and steel toggle switches of the 308 as compared to the black rocker switches and round dials of the 328, and many people prefer the painted bumpers of the 328 as compared to the black bumpers of the 308.

Michael
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308GT4 ... it is much rarer than the later 308s,is faster and handles better...

 

AAhhhh...the magnificent GT4! This is a great time to get one of the fantastic collectibles!

"As for Bertone’s role, it had recently earned Enzo Ferrari’s confidence by building bodies for Fiat’s Dino 2+2, some of them assembled at the Ferrari plant. “My father gave the (308 GT4) project to Bertone because they had done the Fiat Dino 2+2,” said Piero Ferrari, a fact confirmed by former Bertone man Enzo Prearo. “The result was the Dino GT4. He gave to Pininfarina the two-seat car, and that was the 308 GTB.”
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It also should be noted that this is 1 of only 100 cars...and not all of them have Carbon-Kevlar seats either
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For me I'm a F355 owner & if someone asked me do I think the 308 is going to be a Classic I would say the Magnum P.I. Ferrari has been a Classic for years. But I would know little about the whole line of different types of 308's with Turbos & fiber glass, & so on. I would just look at all of them & say that Magnum P.I. Ferrari is a classic. I hate to offend owners here but Ferrari made a line of cars that may be different but look the same. So in a layman's mind you have a Classic Magnum P.I. Ferrari no matter what it is. & I don't care if it has a turbo or a fiber glass body or carburetors, it's Classic looking.

I just saw a Ferrari coming at me on the highway this morning & I thought, "Cool, a 355!" as it passed & I looked on it was a 348. I couldn't tell because the cars are so similar from head on & I own a F355!
That is one reason why 348/355 is off the list. The other reason is 348 & 355 owners don't feel that there cars are the same, we have our differences & sometimes fight. Same goes for the 360/430 owners. Ferrari has been screwing up for years making two different models look the same & on top of it producing thousands of them. They are fantastic cars. They are just not gong to become Classics.

I know they produced a boat load of 308's but they had a weekly successful TV show which little kids would watch & idolize & pictures of Icons like Paul Newman sitting on the hood & racing one. 308 wins or won a long time ago.

 

Good perspective. The latest Michael Sheehan column (probably will be posted on his ferraris-online site soon, also in March SCM) discusses the number of all of these cars that made it to the States, and it was surprisingly low:

Fast forward to 1985 through 1989, a time when Ferrari had the hot-selling U.S.-legal Testarossa, 308, and 328. But in 1985, of 3,288 cars built by Ferrari, only 624, or 19%, were U.S.-spec cars. In 1988, Ferrari's first year to hit 4,001 cars built, only 1,079, or 26%, were U.S. models. Overall, of the 52,000 Fiat-era cars built, only about 13,000, or about 25%, were US models.

(Sheehan puts the 348 from 1991 onward, 355, etc., into the Montezemolo-era. The Boxer through 328 are "Fiat era" in his classification.)

So, yes, there were a boatload of 308s, 328s and TRs, but the notion that there's one sitting on every U.S. used car lot is a bit of a stretch. That said, the Lotus Esprit is far rarer, and values on those have languished seemingly forever.

Also, looking over the numbers, the "rare" one is the 308 GTBi, but if you look at prices the demand has always been for the commoner 308 GTS QV as the best/last of the 308s, and the commoner 'glass 308 as the first of the 308s. So, I think we can read too much into the minutiae. (As a Porsche analogy, the 1958-9 Convertible D is far rarer than the 1955-1957 Speedster, but the latter is the "glamour" car of the run.)

 

The last of the 308/328 body style cars were produced almost 20 years ago, but many "lay" people (not Ferrari aficionados) assume my 308 is new, or fairly new. The design is truly timeless.

The Lotus, by contrast, looks quite dated.

In addition to the appeal of Magnum, the number of 308s and 328s produced also sealed the design in the public's mind as that of the quintessential Ferrari.

In addition, the 308 is simply one of the prettiest cars ever produced, and in the opinion of myself and many others, nothing quite as beautiful has come after it.

 

Regarding 308's in particular, undoubtedly a significant percentage of that high production # have suffered through the same multiple owners/neglect/deferred maintenance that the '60s 2+2 cars and once-upon-a-time "less-desirable" 2 seaters such as the 250PF and Boano/Ellena series did. You might even toss the 365GTB/4 Daytona onto that list.

The supply of really first-class 308's isn't big, excellent to VG drivers bigger but still a minority.

Bringing a classic-but-very poor 308 (my oft-cited Euro GTB, for a prime example) back may be somewhat cheaper than doing a comparable-condition Vintage 12, but, however you want to value it: dollar per pound, dollar per horsepower, whatever, there's not that much difference. Ferrari parts aren't cheap, neither is labor, no matter how you cut it. The 3x8's do have the advantage of a more-plentiful supply of available parts.

So, what's the point?

Bringing a solid "halfway-desirable" Vintage 12 purchased, say, pre-2004, back to good-driver condition, much less show, has arguably been a no-brainer for making money in recent years, not counting current conditions.

Would a carbed Euro 308 GTB resto done now, $100K conservative-guess total investment, including buying the car, bring comparable financial returns in the next 5-10 yrs., factoring in possible devalution of the dollar/high inflation?

 

But the 308 and 328 don't look the same?
MB

 

I agree, mostly. The Esprit actually survived pretty well because it was a solid design back in 1975, but toward the end you could tell Lotus was using body-kit techniques to make it look newer than it was (the wheel arch flares being the most obvious). Also the front valance was getting a tad overstyled by the time they pulled the plug on the car.

As far as the 308/328, it really does look "more like a Ferrari" than anything that has come since. I even get excited about my own car when I'm walking back to it in a parking lot.

The only other car of my lifetime that works as well is the Porsche 911: I think the early '70s cars look great, and my brother's 08 997 looks great.

I can tell a 1977 from a 1980 or 1983, and an early 328 from a late one, and probably a lot of people in the 308/328 section can as well. To the general population, though, they're the same car.

Photos below posted by another FChat'er a while ago -- the 328 (Euro and U.S.) is basically an adaption of the Euro 308 front end after the 5 mph U.S. safety bumper law was rescinded in 1983 or so. The U.S.-spec 308s have the pointy nose, but you have to point that out to people who don't waste their lives on this site. It's not common to have the three big designs (Euro 308, U.S. 308, 328) parked side by side.
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"I can tell a 1977 from a 1980 or 1983, and an early 328 from a late one, and probably a lot of people in the 308/328 section can as well. To the general population, though, they're the same car.

Photos below posted by another FChat'er a while ago -- the 328 (Euro and U.S.) is basically an adaption of the Euro 308 front end after the 5 mph U.S. safety bumper law was rescinded in 1983 or so. The U.S.-spec 308s have the pointy nose, but you have to point that out to people who don't waste their lives on this site. It's not common to have the three big designs (Euro 308, U.S. 308, 328) parked side by side." - Bullfighter

My point exactly...to someone who can't tell the difference between a 348 with slats and a 355 without them, they sure as heck are not going to be able to tell the difference between a 308 and 328, and you know I love yours!!!

MB

 

In the US-it will be the US market fibre 308GTB-100 cars manufactured, less than 95 remain...followed in EU by the drysump fibre cars.
It ALWAYS comes down to coolness, and the numbers made, when all else is equal...
Being a low production run entity does not in and of itself insure a bonus in value in years to come-I remeber doing a Vignale 212 in the mid seventies....to the "nines" I might add...still thinking what a butt ugly thing it was...and that year, I saw GTOs erupt from mid to high 5 figures(4-60, high of 85) to deep 150K+ amounts!('77-'78 as I recall)
To that end, the techie types of cars will be the 360CS/430CS
288s will always be more than F-40s-see line 2 above...
ALL the others...just too many, massed produced cars.
been at this 35+ years...the song remains the same...

 

I'm blown away that you make the statement in 'number 1' but then come to the conclusion you've reached. You're right, people want the cars they dreamed about in high school and college - that would explain the 308 and 328's popularity now. But in ten or fifteen years, people with the discretionary income you discuss won't be the guys who idolized the 308 and 328, they'll be the ones who idolized the 348 and 355, and the 360 and 430 people will be right on their heels. Obviously, this cycle will continue.

I'll tell you one thing, though: I'm 21, and people my age don't idolize the 308/328. They consider it an outdated, underpowered older car (and how can you blame us, when we can buy a brand-new Chevrolet for $22k which will do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds?). You'll note that most of the people who answered this question by saying "308/328" are 308 and 328 owners themselves.

 

Absolutely true, young people aren't impressed by 260 bhp in a 328, and pretty much walk away when you tell them 205 bhp in the early injected 308s.

The only variable is the age of the cars, which I think you (and most people) don't take into account. At some point, it's all about the looks and driving experience. You can read entire articles about the 250 GT SWB or other obsolete Ferraris without any mention of 0-60 or dollar cost relative to performance. And I don't believe that market is supported by guys who wanted those cars in high school. The 308/328 are nowhere close to the 250 GT series right now, but increasingly they do feel like old cars -- no airbags, no carbon fibre, no digital displays, 14" or 16" wheels, no sat nav/GPS, no parking sensors, no F1 gearbox. It's true, the 308/328 are OLD. And that raises an interesting point about the "cycle continuing"...

Bottom line is we've never had "really old" Ferrari V8s around to look back at. There are the classic V12s of the 1960s, but V8 two-seaters didn't exist till 1976 -- and you could argue they aren't classics yet. Over the next few years, as the economy recovers (we hope), we will be looking at the 308/328 as objects of preservation instead of dated performance cars. A car-savvy 21 year old can probably appreciate a Daytona or 275 GTB as a classic, without comparing it to a 2009 Chevy Corvette/Cadillac XLR. I believe that over the next few years we're collectively going to start regarding 308/328s in a similar light. I already do: when I go to FOC/FCA driving events, I have the oldest car there. Usually it's a bunch of 360/F430s with some "club groupies" in Porsches, Mustangs, Vipers, etc. -- fast cars out for a fun drive. The 328 is far away the coolest and best looking car there, IMHO, but as a huge fan of 308/328s I'd be the first to admit it's of another era. People like a well-maintained, dependable, well-preserved 328 for what it is -- a survivor.

I heard an interesting comment from Ferrari tech and all-around good guy Steve Maxwell, who was judging my 328 at a very casual classic car event in San Diego last month. My 328 is fairly stock but it has a Tubi exhaust. I always lose a point for that, but it looks good and sounds good, and the car scores platinum even with the Tubi, so I haven't lost sleep over it. Steve said that given the age of the cars it was probably time to put a stock exhaust back on it, because originality was getting more important. He may be right. To some extent this is why I cringe when people post here about fitting "modern" wheels and tires to 308s -- they are what they are; it's time to recognize that they're a huge part of our sports car history, and trying to make them modern makes about as much sense as turbocharging an MGA.

As a 328 owner, I will lose money on my car when I sell it -- no doubt about it, in part because I follow the 3-year plan on belts. I'm not a car investment guru. But I do firmly believe that in 20 years, when you'll be 41 and somewhere near the prime of your earning years, you won't be able to buy a 328 for under $100,000. You may have to settle for a 360/F430 below that level.

 

I'll tell you one thing, though: I'm 21, and people my age don't idolize the 308/328. They consider it an outdated, underpowered older car (and how can you blame us, when we can buy a brand-new Chevrolet for $22k which will do 0-60 in 5.7 seconds?). You'll note that most of the people who answered this question by saying "308/328" are 308 and 328 owners themselves.[/QUOTE]

Why do people constantly compare a 30 year old car against a new car? LOL Well I'm 53 and i have owned a score of hemi-cudas, fastback shelbys and a few cobras......in my 20's at the time.......and people my age don't idolize them (in the crowd i roll with). We consider them an outdated, underpowered older car (and how can you blame us, when we can buy a brand-new Ferrari ...........) LOL These comparisons kill me. Who care what they cost or will be worth. Just enjoy then now or in the future......

 

I think you're a lot closer, with all due respect to our 21-year-old friend.

At the risk of sounding like a heretic, it's not just about horsepower.

If it were, most pre-1989 Ferraris (save for the 288 and F40, perhaps) would now be scorned, and we'd all be on CamaroChat or SupraChat, or whatever-that-super-ugly-but-super-fast-Nissan-GRTX-or-something-isChat.

The long-scorned Ferrari-that-isn't-a-Ferrari, with "only" six cylinders and less than 200hp is now commanding prices around $200k.

 

Fiberglass 308 will be the one.
Of course the F-40s and 288's will be but I dont think that why this thread began.

360CS's will be eclipsed by the 430 Strad, which will be eclipsed by the yada yada yada.....
Still very cool and I may have a 430 Strad down the road because of its nature and its low maintenance.