While bleading my brakes... | FerrariChat

While bleading my brakes...

Discussion in '308/328' started by GeoMetry, Jul 10, 2010.

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  1. GeoMetry

    GeoMetry Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2008
    471
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Richard
    This was just the annual service on my 1985 308, there was no problem prior to this. Everything seemed to be going fine until the third caliper we suddenly started getting lots of air bubbles out of the blead valve. The reservoir was never allowed to get low on fluid. Looked around and found a small drip under the brake fluid reservoir. I am guessing it is sucking air in at the source of the drip. What are the possible causes? What is the most likely diagnosis?
     
  2. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,060
    I've seen that on a BB clutch master. It was a bear to catch. The rubber grommets between master cyl / reservoir were available for that, those might be the same parts for the brake master.
     
  3. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    763
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    If it is the grommets be very careful when you pull up on the reservoir,it's easy to crack the nipples on the reservoir.A replacement will cost around $400.00.
     
  4. GeoMetry

    GeoMetry Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2008
    471
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Richard
    After spending the morning reading lots of old threads I think I probably need to rebuild or replace the master cylinder because just as we were starting the third caliper I noticed that the pedal started going down a bit further. In another thread (that I should have read BEFORE bleeding the brakes) it said that there could be some corrosion in the part of the master cylinder that does not normally get used so you should not press too hard when bleeding the brakes on an older car.

    So I guess the next thing to do is pop off the reservoir remove the master cylinder and inspect and repair as necessary. The scarry part of that is removing the reservoir as I have read in a number of threads they are scarce/expensive.

    As long as I am removing it is there a suitable aftermarket master cylinder that fits?
     
  5. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    763
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    #5 CaptOharry, Jul 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Contact Speed Works he can get you a reservoir if yours breaks.I found that if you pull straight up try not to pull at an angle it will pop off.You have to pull up pretty hard.The first picture shows a bad seal,I found replacements on Ebay,not an easy task.If memory serves me they are 24MM.I have a spare Master Cylinder if your's cannot be rebuilt.A new one is around $700.00 at T-Rutlands,Good Luck!
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  6. GeoMetry

    GeoMetry Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2008
    471
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Thanks for the advice and the pictures.
     
  7. GeoMetry

    GeoMetry Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2008
    471
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Richard
    I have resigned myself to removing the master cylinder. It looks to me like I should first remove the reservoir and then the 2 bolts on the back side should be accessable. I assume that when I remove the reservoir any fluid in the reservoir will drain out and make a mess so I need to drain it. I was able to remove the fluid from half the reservoir but the other half is still full. How do I get the fluid out of the other half? The only thing that comes to mind is to pump it out through the caliper blead screw.
     
  8. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    #8 CliffBeer, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
    Richard, if you're taking out the MC then let all the brake lines drain out. What's left in the resevoir won't leak out during removal. If you want to be sure then either a) pump it out with the pedal as you suggest, or b) stick a rubber plug in the f/r outlet ports.

    I found that it was difficult to get the resevoir off the MC while in the car - awkward position/no leverage, thus I removed it as a unit. The back two nuts are not easy to remove but if you use an extension slightly longer than the MC itself you're able to swing the socket wrench somewhat to loosen/remove them. Removing the resevoir on the bench wasn't too bad - squirted a little WD40 around the rubber grommets and let it soak in for an hour or so and popped the resevoir straight up with moderate hand pressure.

    Going back in it's easiest to bolt the MC back in with the resevoir removed, then push the resevoir down into the grommets afterwards (so that access to the rear 2 nuts is easier) - doing so doesn't require much pressure.

    The MC is a very rare benditalia and hard to come by. If the bore of yours is pitted in the least then don't bother just putting it back together with new seals - it will leak. There are places (www.goldlinebrakes.com for example) that can install a nice brass or ss sleeve that'll make it better than new (won't corrode).

    The MC rebuild kit from superformance in the UK is pretty good and not expensive (can't say the same for the caliper rebuild kits, which are junk).

    Good luck!
     
  9. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,856
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    Not for nothin', but did you try bleeding the other calipers again and see if you got air bubbles there too? I've seen it happen that if you loosen the bleed screw too much, it will suck in air around the threads and push it out the bleed valve, so it looks like you have air in the line. You should be breaking the bleed screw open only about a 1/4 turn. Before going and tearing the car apart, go back and try rebleeding and see what happens. If you get air out of all of them, then obviously, it points to another problem. Just a thought to possibly save you some work.
     
  10. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    763
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    When I drained my reservoir i used a turkey baster,No mess put the soak pads down for insurance.And yes the Master Cylinder is easier to remove this way.
     
  11. Modeler

    Modeler F1 Veteran

    May 19, 2008
    7,330
    State of confusion
    Full Name:
    a.n.other
    I would drain all the fluid. Its hydroscopic and with open ended lines, at the master cylinder end, will absorb a lot of moisture from the air. That's especially the case should it take a while to get the cylinder done and back in place.
    Moisture in the fluid substantially lowers its boiling point with obvious negative results.
     

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