who dares 400 i manual on e bay

Wow, a primer on How Not to Present a Car for Sale:

1. Don't bother washing the years of dust that have accumulated everywhere on the car from years of sitting and neglect.

2. Don't bother cleaning up old Red Bull cans, water bottles, paper napkins and other trash out of the interior before taking photos.

3. Don't bother attempting to fix properly the bodged "rust repair" and apparent leak at the top of the windshield.

4. Don't bother to attempt to clean a shamefully filthy engine compartment.

5. Don't bother to show a photo of the dent that is mentioned in the text.

6. Don't bother mentioning any maintenance on the car other than the federalization done 30 years ago.

7. Don't bother fixing any of the things that were wrong with the car the last time it was offered for sale in 2007, such as the oil pressure gauge, the a/c (who needs a/c in Houston anyway?), the headlight control stalk, the thermostat.

Obviously this car is a poster child for deferred (as in, "none") maintenance and, judging by my records of the previous offerings of this car going back to 1989, has been for a long, long time.

The only positive thing that can be said is that it apparently was roadworthy enough to cover 6,000 miles since 2007, so it's got THAT going for it!

Don't know what the seller is asking or expecting but if it goes low enough it could be a reasonable deal if the mechanicals check out okay. However, this car will need a lot of work, a good amount of elbow grease and some luck to end up being decent and reliable.

 

I wonder what "low enough" is?
Unfortunately cars can be brought now in nice shape for less than it will take to make this one a driver. So it would be financial suicide to do any thing other than part it out.

 

Wow that's a beauty!

can't imagine how this makes ANY financial sense for anyone-

Let's say the guy let's it go for a song- $15K... Even if you're doing all the work yourself you're for sure going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars in parts- the car with all o that rust will need a glass-out repsray- and that usually means front or rear windscreen gets broken in the process- I personally don't care for these on the 14" wheels- But still... for $30K you can get a perfectly presentable 5 speed-

Under $10,000 and then restoration makes sense-

 

Don't forget the two pieces of Schedoni luggage! Pictures unfortunately not included (point 8 of HNTPACFS).

 

Don't forget the leaky oil drain plug.

 

Yeah sure... I'm sure this engine has ALL bad seals- Leaky Rear main is probably the major problem here.

Worn, filthy Ferraris always equal BIG BUCKS to sort.

 

Could it be worth it as a parts car?

 

It may end up as a donor driveline for a rebody project.
There is a 340MM being built up from a 400GT as I write this.

 

unfortunately there is ZERO correlation between the actual value of the parts in this car and its market value- You could realize well over $100K breaking this and selling off the individual parts- but as it sits it's a $10K project car.

 

even under $10K, in the current market you'd still be way, way upside down...which i still can't understand because they're really great cars.
but even if you were looking for a very low upfront cost because you were fixing for yourself, you'd still be in really, really deep when all was said and done...
likely $50K even if you were handy...trust me...and David's ex-400i didn't any bodywork and only minimal paint !
and although i would never have sold David's car for $30K, it's as you say because he would have...and still nobody jumped at it.

oh, they're 15" wheels.

and that's a real shame...driving Davids ex-car back from Buffalo for 2 hours on Tuesday was best time i've had this season...
and i've driven no less than 15 different Ferrari's ranging from 365's to 360's this month.

but if you've never parted a car Jay, let me tell you, it's nothing but a giant pain in the ass...
everybody wants the **** for next to nothing...you've got to inventory, store, reply to people, debate, package, ship...it sucks...
and in the end you'd never get a fraction of $100K...i doubt you'd even double your money, which means your doing it for nothing.

 

Brett

Yeah you're right about parting a car- I have done it with a couple of ALfa Spiders and 911s- But i was able to make at leas triple the value of the car by putting the items up individually on ebay-But yeah this was years ago when I had more time on my hands- took forever.

Still shocked at Davids 400i debacle- I guess you gotta be the right guy to appreciate these cars. Not his fault of course- but the cars are fantastic when sorted, and i doubt they will ever be cheaper than right now.

 

oh my!

 

As it sits, any estimates on value of engine and tranny?

 

fwiw, a friend of mine who is an exotic car dealer in geneva just got a 412 in the shop. i was not enthused and he said that neither was he, BUT that at the moment he cannot find any to buy and he has demand - said that those who own them have sorted them out and wont sell for cheap, and thus there is no supply as in years past. so in his estimation they will rise a bit going forward.

i have no idea, just relaying his opinion.

 

Frankly, not much at all. I think everyone's first reaction would be, "A V-12 engine and a tranny? Why those are worth thousands, tens of thousands." But the reality is probably not much.
How many guys have posted here wanting to buy a replacement engine? None.
How many cars do we know about with blown engines? None.
How many have have done an auto to 5-speed swap? Lots have talked about it but the answer is....you guessed it.

My .02 cents

 

uhmm, I bought my 400 with a blown engine. But I wanted to keep de original unit with the car, so I spend some monthly wages on rebuilding it. It is all about the originality of these cars that does it for me. And sure it is easy and pretty cheap to do a manual conversion with the aftermarket Tremec gearboxes, but that is not how it left Italy. My car will keep the slushbox, and for a good reason! I really love the automatics, it is a GT, not a sportscar

 

Let's face it the big stuff (read "really, really expensive stuff") on these cars doesn't go bad. The engines don't throw a rod through the block, the trannies don't explode, the frames don't rot through, etc., etc. It is the "bits" that everyone wants; the sunvisor clips, the speaker grills, that little thingy by the whatsamacallit, etc. The problem is there isn't enough money in those kind of parts. Brett and full_g are right; parting out a car is a misery that never ends.

 

My point exactly! You say "blown engine" but I'll bet it doesn't need a new block. Bearings, rings, chain, seals, maybe; but not a whole block I'm guessing. So you're going to be much better off fixing it and not buying a new, or replacement, engine.

 

Dave-

Our perspective here in the States is a little off- Because there are basically ZERO 400/412s in the States- Maybe several hundred left in running condition- just no supply for parts and, even though we all need the same things- no real demand.

That said there is a small market for really super clean cars- there always is. Over the past year a few really nice cars sold through well known exotic dealers for well above market- (Heck I bought one) but to call two or three sales a year a "trend" is not accurate.

 

Huh? I didn''t say anything about a "trend". Am I missing something?

 

absolutely not his fault at all...as i always say, you don't get to choose what makes your heart beat fast...

so true.

exactly Dave...you can't recoup your $10K (nevermind your lost time) selling $100-200 bits.

thankfully, i bought my parts car for very specific needs...cam pulleys, rad and A/C condenser/compressor...and it was a package deal with a '74 Dino GT4.
Rosenstraten (Costa Mesa) wanted $5K just for the few parts that i needed and the complete car from Sweeney was $9500 !!!
the gravy was the 15" wheels, the perfect early steering wheel and all the busted in demand bits that Dave already mentioned...
so i was able to finish the 400i and Jim's 365 but now i also have almost anything i could need going forward with my own 400 or my new 365 GT4 project.

for me it made great sense...but my circumstances are kind of unique.

 

On the money again, the block is bomb proof. Two pistons were reduced to powder, conrod looked like a diner serving of spaggetti and the liners looked like the face of a boozing and smoking geezer. But the block, crank & bearings and heads were okay!
Even if I opted for a used engine I would have still rebuilt it, 'cause you never know what you bought after taking apart the replacement engine anyway. Costwise not very efficient, but for originality a nighmare. A perfect replacement costs in Europa about 15 to 30K. the rebuild was about 8 grand. (still need to count the parts bills )

To my humble opinion the V12s are only really interesting for kit car or replica builders at the current prices here.

And about the restoring remarks of this Ebay 400 : Since when is restoring about making money? You will always loose cash, but you WILL contribute to the preservation of these awesome GTs.
And if you can not afford one (puchase, maintenance, restoring), do not buy one anyway

 

Well said.

 

Nice color, but a fright pig.