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430 Who does flash tune for f430?

Discussion in '360/430' started by craze, Mar 7, 2021.

  1. craze

    craze Karting
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    Mar 5, 2021
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    Michael
    Hello, im in australia and interested in a tune
    Particularly mase engineering

    Who does a flash tune? I dont want to send ecus as due to covid shipping to and from international is a problem
    Hence wanting a flash tune
     
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  3. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    360trev
    Don't forget AV engineering too, search for JayEmm's video on YouTube. Aldous has a +50hp upgrade on his own personal F430s., not only increased power but multi map selection and more. I know they have local affiliates in Melbourne BTW and their maps are tuned for fuel octane you get in Australia.

    Nice video anyways, well worth watching



    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Danedingerson

    Danedingerson Karting

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Is it really true that Ferrari missed 50 HP? doesn't sound like Ferrari.
     
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  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    They did on my 575M. 6-1 headers and low restriction 200 series cats net around 50 hp without a tune. F430 set-up is similar with precats in the headers.
     
  6. armedferret

    armedferret Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2018
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    Technically Ferrari didn't "miss" the HP per se, more like ever-tightening emissions regulations forced the inability for those horses to come out and play.
     
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  8. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior
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    Correct. That and building in conservatism to improve reliability/longevity and cope with varied fuel quality in different regions.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  9. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Its not that they left it on the table, its that it wasn't available to them based on the technical and commercial requirements that they have to follow. You see they have several criteria to follow which limit what they can offer;

    1. Leaving something on the table for special editions
    This is very often done so that it is easy to differentiate a special version of the base model by allowing it to be easy to add 10-20hp.

    2. Cost / Time to manufacture
    Might sound strange on a Ferrari but cost is a concern too. Things like Inconel alloy exhausts are expensive to produce vs Steel and can reduce weight significantly leading to overall performance improvements. It is often again saved for special low volume runs typically. Even manufacturing techniques can impact performance, sometimes its significantly cheaper to produce a slightly lower performance design so cost can sometimes win.

    3. Noise emissions

    Often forgotten but the number of sound dB's a car is allowed to produce under hard acceleration really can blunt performance. Its a strict legal requirement when new which is what is leading to very dull sounding new cars. The noise emissions have got crazy in recent years and its the reason why they'll never be another car like the Challenge Stradale for example.

    4. Tailpipe emissions regulations
    Again same as noise emissions but this time related to back pressure produced from the flow rate of catalyzer's typically used. They need to be emissions compliant for the majority of the vehicles lifespan so headroom is often left vs sports cats which while still passing emissions tests (higher flow rates) probably wouldn't do so for 60,000 miles like a typical cat would have to.

    5. Low Octane fuel
    Since many of the vehicles produced now are common across several markets they are tuned for lowest common denominator of worst fuel they are likely to encounter. Lower octane fuel is more likely to cause detonation and need timing to be pulled (blunting performance) so calibration is often 'very safe' so that during emissions testing there are no dets happening ( even very low levels of acceptable detonation considerably impact emissions).

    etc.

    Some points worth raising too. On its own 'Peak power gain' doesn't necessarily add that much to a driving experience (its why I hate dyno maps as people often don't really understand them and simply just look for better peak power as being the best tune). Peak is just a specific point in the rev range. Improving broad spectrum of low to mid-range torque for example makes a bigger difference you can really feel on the road but may not necessarily equate to that much higher peak performance hp figures.

    Also the speed at which the engine software algorithms translate your throttle inputs (I'm not talking about necessarily throttle sensitivity which is something entirely different) but going from your throttle inputs to actual torque @ the wheels is often much slower than expected for specific reasons (e.g. helping novice drivers feed in the power even if they mash the throttle to the firewall, so they don't spin wheels in a high torque car for example). So in this case the cars algorithms inhibit giving you all that power and feed in your request over time, in other words bypassing the drivers wishes). This isn't ideal for experienced drivers as you may wish to alter the cars attitude mid corner to steer on throttle for example and that becomes difficult or impossible to do without code changes for example. Again most tuners have no way to alter this because all they can typically do is modify the calibrations that the manufacturer of the engine computer allowed them to change. Its why I invested years of my life to deeply understand the entire ecu software and allow me to make customized changes to yield better driving experiences. Its a tricky subject to discuss without going into crazy amounts of technical details but suffice to say the end results can be amazing! Like driving a different car!
     
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  10. Danedingerson

    Danedingerson Karting

    Dec 26, 2011
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    Could you help me understand how a tune would change the first four items? The tune would change the timing so only high octane would work and alter the throttle inputs? This would make the peak power number 50 hp higher?
     
  11. Danedingerson

    Danedingerson Karting

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    Are you saying that altering the tune to get that power would reduce reliability in the opinion of Ferrari?
     
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  13. armedferret

    armedferret Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2018
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    The tune itself wont alter hardware introduced for emissions and noise control. That requires changing that hardware to open up the breathing.

    As for power....tune alone, not likely. Tune in combination with changing some of the breathing bottlenecks? Absolutely.
     
  14. brogenville

    brogenville Formula Junior
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    I would think its likely that they would take that stance, whether or not it can be substantiated for a specific example is another matter.

    The simple fact is that if you're pushing an engine harder, its not going to last as long. More power comes from higher revs and increased cylinder combustion pressure, both of which put increased stress on the load bearing components in the engine. In most cases we're talking degrees here- most people wouldn't expect 200k miles out of a Ferrari engine, but you'd be pretty unimpressed if your Wartsila indstrial diesel didn't chug away for 10x as many running hours. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't call a race engine that needs rebuilt every 50 hours unreliable per-se, its just what its designed to do.
     
  15. Danedingerson

    Danedingerson Karting

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    So the tune change would make the engine violate emissions? Otherwise Ferrari would have used that tune?
     
  16. armedferret

    armedferret Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2018
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    No. The tune works IN CONJUNCTION WITH hardware to allow the engine to breathe better. Breathing better = more air, more air = more fuel = more power.

    Ferrari's factory tune is optimized for the hardware they're required to put on the car to meet emissions (catalytic converters, pre-cats, all the associated sensors) and noise (non-optimal exhaust diameter and flow route) regulations.

    If you aren't familiar with how removing a very restrictive factory exhaust, catalytic converters, and manifolds with pre-cats and replacing them with aftermarket non-restrictive units can work in harmony with a fresh ECU map to help an engine to make more power, here's an explanation:

    https://www.crutchfield.com/ISEO-rmsbcspd/learn/learningcenter/car/performance_parts/exhaust_benefits.html

    The tune itself can add power and certainly make things less friendly to the environment, sure. But a tune ALONE will not do nearly as much as a tune paired with proper hardware.
     
  17. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3
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    I was curious, can an ECU flash get the F430 engine to rev to 9k like the 458? I don't necessarily care about adding too much more power all that much since I think the F430 has the perfect amount to make it fun at varying speeds; but it would be cool to capture just that bit more of rev range.

    BTW I remember Josh Hill (Exotic Performance) in Austin telling me he could do it. Well, either him or he sent it to someone, but pretty sure it was him. This was sometime last year, so my memory is a little fuzzy.
     
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  18. armedferret

    armedferret Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2018
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    It would depend on the tune, but in the process of creating a new map for the engine, yes in theory one can remove the limiter entirely.

    I would advise against doing much as the limiter is there to protect the engine internals and if you rev too high, you *WILL* be crying. ;)
     
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  19. tifosi101

    tifosi101 Karting

    Jun 12, 2013
    84
    France
    @360trev I really appreciate your intervention and clear explanation :)
    I particularly like reading the extracts above because it is hard to make it understand to "non technician" owners but very important to consider.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Does not do much good to rev to 9000 rpm if power drops off well before that, like it would with stock cams.
     
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  21. colorfull

    colorfull Karting
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    Sep 12, 2020
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    John Napoli
    Anyone know if I can get a flash tune (as opposed to shipping ECU's) near Central New Jersey?
     
  22. Snapshift

    Snapshift Karting
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    May 31, 2020
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    Lyle D. Pahnke
    Fabspeed seems to have a flashtune for a few cars on their website. Perhaps they can set something up for 430's with their headers. It is on their website with a video or 2 to explain how it is done. I may explore this option.
    https://www.fabspeed.com/my-genius-client-download/
     
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  23. Snapshift

    Snapshift Karting
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    May 31, 2020
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    Lyle D. Pahnke
    Mase Engineering also lists remote tuning on their website after some form submission and possibley a consultation. Look for remote tuning option on page below.

    https://maseflash.com/pages/services
     
    colorfull likes this.
  24. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    You can always have classic coach do the tune and Dyno it before and after

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  25. craze

    craze Karting
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    Mar 5, 2021
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    Michael
    I found couple of companies in au, but not convinced in their abilities, ill leave it stock me thinks
     
  26. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    Somehow there were two different threads asking for a flash tune ..one in NJ and you .. i answered the wrong thread ..sorry for any confusion



    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  27. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi Formula 3
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    Mar 1, 2012
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    Max power is quoted at 8500rpm redline. But every dyno graph I have seen (430) power is still climbing with no sign of plateauing at this point. So I think there is more power with more revs. Would I try? Probably not.
     
  28. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    @colorfull

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
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