Who knows the true story of the two Ferrari Bartoletti 642 rn2 racetransporters ?

Same vehicle. No longer mine.

Original frame but lots of repairs to the body as it went through many evolutions and changes over the years through various owners included many updates and modifications by Ferrari themselves during their eleven years of ownership and use. All original records, photos from moment one through each change and mod though Automobil Ferrari Construzione ownership to their Scuderia Ferrari Ownership then to their SEFAC ownership. No gaps through next three owners until our purchase while in restoration in the 1990s.

Never lost or confused or misunderstood by any of the previous owners or Italian authorities. Always known by each subsequent owner that it was originally ordered and used by Ferrari from 1959 through 1970.

Impossibly perfect documentation on the one an only original 682. Simple as that.

We had just over $300,000 in total direct costs on this vehicle. That included the full use of an Italian Law firm that background checked the vehicle and handled the purchase for us. (We were more than a bit concerned that it might be seen as an Italian National Treasure and taken away from us. We also had concerns that Ferrari may have brought pressure that they should have first rights to purchase it back and certainly did not want any problems with them.)

I posted my full contact details for anyone interested in this machine and have provided hundreds of photos and copies of all documents to all who asked without restriction. I gave access to a dozen or so simple curious enthusiasts who wanted to see and inspect the vehicle itself and even took a couple of folks for rides around town.

I have now passed all of the original material to the new owner. I will still share photos and notes to anyone who asks if they contact me.

I am afraid however the chance for rides has now come and gone.

Cheers,

Bill Noon

 

I remain confused.

Recipient and Sender redacted for the present time but absolutely unedited from a written declaration of representative of former owner of this transporter.

"Thx for the reply Would you know if there would be a stamped # on the chassis and if so.......where. The Chassis # or vin is on a plate that is screwed down. That plate shows 003002 and the engine # 364A 024061.
Hope this helps. The truck is in storage and difficult to get to.........But not impossible. Also of note is 682 is a lot Bigger than the truck of Jon shirley. Somebody told me that 682 is on a truck chassis and jon's is on a bus chassis. Not sure if this is true or not but sound right."

"We purchased 003001 and 003002 directly from Carrozzeria Bartoletti while both were in restoration.

"003001 is a Tipo 682 R N2
003002 is a Tipo 642 R N2..."

Bill Noon

"Year 1959
Make FIAT
Model 682/RN-2
Chassis No. 682RN2 001461
Engine No. 203.0/3 024568"

Talacrest

003001?

Finally lets look at some photo's.

The B&W is a photo that had been published on the Restoration Company's Website, which as I said was subsequently removed, as the chassis used in the restoration of this Transporter.

Note the rear glass in the back of the cab.

The Color photo is the back of the cab today.

Can anyone help clear my confusion?
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Hi Jim,

I will try to.

The photo of the restored 682 is the one we sold. This one is as follows:

Year 1959
Make FIAT
Model 682/RN-2
Chassis No. 682RN2 001461
Engine No. 203.0/3 024568
Registration MO 53210 (1959-1970)
Registered VE 209093 (1970)
Registered PD 467856 (1971-1994)

Purchased by our company still road registered with PD 467856 plates then later sold to Hart family and now sold again.

Do not know what the stripped black and white truck/bus photo is but do not it is not "001461"

Hope that helps.

Bill

 

The confusion mostly likely on any of this centers on the mistakes regarding the other Ferrari 642 transporters. They only had the one 682 but possibly three other 642s. The registration documents and customs paperwork for the 642 we had showed chassis numbers 003001 and 003002 but one number is a typo as we only bought one 642 and this 682. Not sure which is the correct number for the 642 but think it might be 003002.

In any case, while they look similar, there is a big difference between a 642 and a 682. Ferrari had the 682 in continuous use form the late 1950s to the early 1970s! I think the various 642s were in use for only a few years each before being sold off and replaced by other transporters.

Hope that helps as well.

Bill

 

I agree that the B&W Photo is not the original chassis/cab of "001461"

The Black and white photo was posted by the company who restored the transporters that
you bought. There are other Black and White Photo's that they posted that as I've said have been removed from their web site but I have copies of. The Web site stated that this is the chassis they used to restore the Transporter. They could be wrong. It may not be. Surely you have detailed photographs of the chassis/transporter "001461" being restored that can answer Definitively whether or not the chassis in the B&W photo was used as the Restorer's Web Site stated or if the photo was of another project and not used to restore "001461" and was posted on their web site in error and thus removed.

 

Hi Jim,

Yes, we had extensive, pre-during and obviously after restoration photos. They are now being circulated about the internet quite freely.

The chassis shown in the black and white photos was not used in anyway on our 642 or 682. From the looks of what my untrained eye can see, I am not sure if the b/w photo is even a 642 or 682. The transverse parts of the frame (cross members) shown in the photo seem to be on top of the main frame rails and not exactly the same on the 642 and 682. I could be wrong but thats how they appear to me.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Perhaps you could post or direct me to some pre or during restoration photos.

 

I think the b&w photo shows rather a FIAT like this one, maybe used for spare parts...
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Hi Jim,

You already have my before restoration and after restoration photos. I will have my office girl make copies of the in restoration ones and mail them out Monday. Please as always feel free to share, post as you see fit without restriction of any kind.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Just looked at 003002 at Jon Shirley's yesterday. It is 642RN2 per the VIN plate.

 

Link?

Thanks

 

Thanks for the link. Photo's 15,16,17 tell the story. This chassis was used as you say. It lies beneath the Truck bed attached to it. They stripped off the cab and the truck bed and recreated a new Cab and virtually all of the Transporter using that chassis. If they didn't use that chassis why would they show a photo of it?

Great Detective work.

The "Restorers" are very straightforward as to where they got the chassis and they clearly admit it by posting that photo. If it originally appeared on the file of the restoration of the 682Rn2 that's where I suspect it was used.

(You can see the photo's by clicking on the transporter and then bringing up "Next" in the mid/upper right hand side.)

Go to their web site:

http://www.silmabus.it/_allestimenti/restauri/index.htm

Click on their site about the restoration of THIS Transporter not the Maser.

It's very clear where they got the chassis. It's under the truck bed that's on top of the chassis they clearly show with the cab and Truck bed stripped off and which they later painted Blue in separate clear photographs.

All of the photo's are there. With the Truck bed and Truck Cab. With those stripped off and with it then painted Blue.

 

This is my opinion:

Photo n°1 (2 images) - This is the real 642 before and after restoration (#002989).

Photo n°2 (3 images) - This is the chassis used to create the second 642 (maybe #003002).

Photo n°3 (2 images) - This is the real 682 before and after restoration (#001461).

My question is: Why should SILMA use another chassis to restore the 682?
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They did not.

It seems however that a some who were not there, did not inspect, check, investigate, pay the bills each month, and monitor the progress of the restoration for many years seem now convinced that the very undamaged, zero accident chassis was for some reason replaced.

This is not the case.

Much as I love these machines and would like to assist those interested in them, I am more than a bit tired of this and won't argue the point further.

Bill

 

For many years the Restorer SILMA has clearly posted a photo of the Truck they used the Chassis from to restore the 682.

Recently they added additional photo's of that Truck Chassis during the Restoration Process including The chassis with the Truck Cab and Truck Bed removed and later painted
Blue.

Last night Bill Noon emailed me a photo of the 682's chassis that was taken during and Documented the restoration of the 682. That photo is at the end of this post. Compare Bill's chassis photo with the photo that SILMA posted on the 682 restoration web site.

If they hadn't used a replacement chassis why for many years would they post photo's and recently have added additional photo's of the Truck's Chassis they used to restore the 682? Photo's of the chassis that was used in the restoration of the 682 that match the one provided by Bill Noon to me that are very clearly one and the same?

Why? Who knows but SILMA clearly says by the Photo's that THEY have posted on THEIR web site in their sole discretion that they did.
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There are 17 photos on the SILMA site (Maybe I'm wrong with the identification).

Photo 01 = 642 after construction (For me the Replica 642 truck).
Photo 02 = 682 after restoration.
Photo 03 = 682 interior after restoration (compare with photo 15).
Photo 04 = 642 after construction.
Photo 05 = 642 after construction.
Photo 06 = 642 after construction.
Photo 07 = 682 during restoration.
Photo 08 = 682 during restoration.
Photo 09 = 682 during restoration.
Photo 10 = 682 during restoration.
Photo 11 = 682 during restoration.
Photo 12 = 642 during construction.
Photo 13 = 642 during construction.
Photo 14 = Restored chassis from the donor truck.
Photo 15 = 682 interior before restoration.
Photo 16 = Donor truck.
Photo 17 = Donor chassis (in the background is the red 682).

Another question: If the donor chassis is under the 682, wich chassis is under the 642?

 

Good Question.

Another unanswered question remains is why would a person write the following after inspecting the screwed in chassis of the Ex Hart 682? This makes no sense either...


"Thx for the reply Would you know if there would be a stamped # on the chassis and if so.......where. The Chassis # or vin is on a plate that is screwed down. That plate shows 003002 and the engine # 364A 024061.
Hope this helps. The truck is in storage and difficult to get to.........But not impossible. Also of note is 682 is a lot Bigger than the truck of Jon shirley. Somebody told me that 682 is on a truck chassis and jon's is on a bus chassis. Not sure if this is true or not but sound right."

 

The truck seen in Giotto post #15 seems to be a truck commonly used for amusement-parks and carousels removals (I have seen hundreds like this in Italy).

>I visited some Italian truck Forums in the last days and saw many FIAT (642, 643, 662, etc...) but no 682 like the one in the photo from post #15. Can somebody post one ore more photos with such 682 Bartoletti cabins?

 

I emailed SILMA to inquire of they used a donor chassis or the original and this was the reply:

in all the truck (n°3 two ferrari transporter open and one Maserati transporter close )the chassis is original.

saluti
S.I.L.M.A.-BUS srl
Allestimento Veicoli Speciali
Sistema certificato ISO 9001
Via Labriola 19
41123 Modena
PI e CF: 00751400367
Tel: 059/335751
Fax: 059/3368910

 

Original to what?

Why don't you ask them if that's true why have they for many years and why are they continuing to show the chassis clearly taken from a Truck not an original transporter in photo's on their web site as having been used in the "restoration" of the Ex Hart and Shirley Transporters...

 

3 pages with photos here:
http://public.fotki.com/RnDUnique/daves-car-pics/1957fiat642rnferrar/