News

Who knows the true story of the two Ferrari Bartoletti 642 rn2 racetransporters ?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by andymont, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Maybe the Restorer used it and passed it on.

    ;)
     
  3. 308GTSi34047

    308GTSi34047 Rookie

    May 16, 2008
    16
    #103 308GTSi34047, Aug 9, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
    I'm not a regular here but I would like to add my comments to the thread.

    When the new issue of Classic and Sports Car arrived last week, I saw the Fiat 682/RN2 offered by Talacrest in the UK I decided to do more research on the Ferrari transporters.

    First, I knew I had seen something similar this past January at the Grand National Roadster Show in Southern California; It was Don Orosco's Scarab transporter.

    http://bit.ly/dxZnFd

    Because I love writing about unusual automotive subjects, I started researching the Ferrari transporters, which led me here. What a fantastic thread.

    Earlier today I posted a blog on the subject. I hope if you're interested in the subject, you'll take a look.

    http://bit.ly/9sE9BC

    In addition to the photos from the Talacrest listing, I took the liberty of pulling some of the photos from here to illustrate the blog, enlarged and enhanced up to 1024 pixels.

    Please understand that it's written to a more general automotive audience, not a Ferrari-specific one, but if you see anything that is inaccurate, please leave a comment in the comments box and I will update it as I can.

    On an unrelated note, I had to smile when I looked at Jim's signature line here, "Not putting miles on your Ferrari is like not having sex with your Girl Friend so she'll be more desirable to her next Boy Friend." Exactly 25 years ago today, I purchased a 1980 308GTSi, #34047, hence my screen name here.

    Over the next six years I drove the car more than 70,000 miles. At the time I owned a mobile electronics store in New Jersey -- Kartunes Mobile Electronics -- and the car was literally my daily driver. I drove the car at every opportunity. I used to think, walking out to the garage on a cold winter morning, I get to drive a piece of sculpture to work every day, and then skipping second on the drive to work until the car was fully warmed up. The car, actually its audio/radar detector system, was even featured in Cavallino in 1986.

    As it was my daily driver, I used to say, I treated it as if it was a 911; I even drove it in New Jersey winters. Needless to say, I painted it more than once, the second time when I slid on ice and wrecked it. I sold it in the fall of 1991 and have wondered what happened to it.

    If anyone knows of a high mileage 1980GTSi with chassis number 34047, would you let me know? I'd love to know what happened to the car.

    Richard Truesdell
    Editorial Director, automotivetraveler.com
    Editor, Chevy Enthusiast
     
  4. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
    498
    Torino - ITALY
    Full Name:
    Andrea M.
    The blue Scarab transporter wasn't at all a sister of the Scuderia's 682RN2.
    At most it could be a distant relative, mainly because it was originally based on a bus chassis and engine, and not on a truck mechanical as the other.
    The only common things were Fiat mechanical and Bartoletti body.

    If the information I've recently got directly from the Bartoletti factory (or what remaining of it...) is exact , the Bartoletti Scarab truck had these VIN#
    chassis : 306/2 *001625* (originally 2 axles and then transformed in a 3 axles chassis)
    engine : 203.080 *028664*

    The 306/2 was the second of the three series of the type 306 bus chassis built from 1956 to 1982.
    The 306 was mainly equipped with the engine 203H.61 a 6-cylinder horizontal diesel (not a real flat) , also called "the big sole", 11,548 cc 176 hp, with a 4+4 speed transmission.

    Ciao
    Andrea
     
  5. 308GTSi34047

    308GTSi34047 Rookie

    May 16, 2008
    16
    Thanks Andrea for the clarification. Do you know where I can find the restoration photos SILMA?

    Thanks,

    Rich
     
  6. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
    498
    Torino - ITALY
    Full Name:
    Andrea M.
    #106 andymont, Aug 10, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010

    This is the link to the website, consider that you'll find the photographic report of the restoration of a genuine Maserati truck and a mixed report about the works of replica regarding two different ex Scuderia Ferrari trucks.

    http://www.silmabus.it/_allestimenti/restauri/index.htm

    Ciao
    Andrea
     
  7. Bill_OBrien

    Bill_OBrien Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2004
    404
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Bill O'Brien
    #107 Bill_OBrien, Sep 28, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
    Was the Don Orasco - Scarab transporter originally the Maseratti transporter or did Reventlow commission the transporter directly from Bartoletti? I have seen it described both ways... Chassis number 001625

    Was it a 1956 or a 1959?


    If it is not the same truck, what was the chassis number on the Maseratti Bartoletti transporter plate number MO43571 ? Year?


    What was the plate number of the 1966 Fiat Transporter chassis number 007970 with Rolfo body work ? It is the one sold by Gooding at Peblle in 2007 for $297k

    There is an Alfa Romeo transporter with what appears to be Bartoletti body work (perhaps not...). Any year, chassis or plate number information on that one?

    Link:

    http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-trucks-buses-marine-aviation-rail-industrial/50281-1950s-scuderia-ferrari-alfa-truck-2.html


    For clarification, the 642 R N2 is the 2 axle and the 682 R N2 is the 3 axle version??? Question, only one 682 R N2 transporter was made from the factory? True? Chassis number 001625 - Scarab transporter was converted to three.

    I show chassis numbers 003001 and 003002 being built in 1957 according to Bill Noon... these were built before chassis number 001461 which I show as a 1959 model also according to Bill Noon. Were the chassis numbers not sequential??

    Thanks for the help!!
     
  8. Bill_OBrien

    Bill_OBrien Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2004
    404
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Bill O'Brien
  9. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Great post!!! These are the most detailed pix I have seen of a Ferrari transporter. Printed them all out and will go into the transporter file which will now be over 100 pages. Thanks much. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  10. Bill_OBrien

    Bill_OBrien Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2004
    404
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Bill O'Brien
    #110 Bill_OBrien, Sep 30, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
    Exoto Models have a model of a Maserati Bartoletti transporter. The plate on that model is MO52280.

    Is this a later plate than plate number MO43571 shown on pictures of a Maserati transporter or are there two seperate trucks?
     
  11. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
    498
    Torino - ITALY
    Full Name:
    Andrea M.
    #111 andymont, Oct 4, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011


    The Exoto plate MO 52280 is a fantasy number shown on both Maserati and Ferrari transporter.

    The Fiat 642 Rn2 built by Bartoletti of Forlì were three.
    Two were owned by the scuderia Ferrari registered MO 42628 and MO 42629.
    Maserati owned the third one registered MO 43571.

    But Bartoletti built for the Scuderia Ferrari two others opendeck transporters :
    - Fiat 642 Rn 1955/1957 - two tones grey - MO 35150
    - Fiat 682 Rn2 1959 /1970 - two tones red - MO 53210

    All the above five trucks were 2 axles.

    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  12. ilconservatore

    ilconservatore F1 Veteran

    May 18, 2009
    8,102
    Cincinnati Ohio
    So, has anyone here ever driven one? Imagine speeding across Europe with an Italian driver and 3 cars loaded...

    Lemans might look like a go kart race after that ;)
     
  13. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,461
    Left Coast
    Speeding ?
     
  14. billnoon

    billnoon Formula 3
    BANNED

    Aug 22, 2003
    1,176
    La Jolla, California
    Full Name:
    Bill Noon
    I have driven both the 642 and 682 many times. Four speed gearbox that is good until you hit just over 20 or so miles an hour. Then you engage a lever for the 2-speed rear axle and start over again. You essentially have 8 gears. Top speed on the 642 is just over 50mph down hill with a tail wind.

    The 682 is the real performer and can just touch 60mph if you pedal really hard!

    Both are absolute delights to drive with impossibly perfect visibility and a seating position as comfortable as your favorite lounge chair.

    They both will seat something like 7 to 8 people and I think both have folding beds against the back bulkhead. I love them and wish I had one myself.

    I have never had so much fun going so slow except in a ship.

    Ciao,

    Bill
     
  15. Bill_OBrien

    Bill_OBrien Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2004
    404
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Bill O'Brien
    #115 Bill_OBrien, Oct 6, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
    Ok, some clarification on how many Ferrari Ferrari Bartoletti transporters were built.

    Bill Noon had mentioned in a previous post that Symbolic had purchased and sold Chassis Number 003001. In doing research I was unable to find any other referrence to that Chassis Number. In subsequent communications with Bill we deduced that the two transports that Symbolic acquired from the Silma bus company were:

    Chassis Numbers 001461 / Plate Number MO 53210 - Fiat 682 RN2 Bartoletti - Sold at Pebble Beach in August for $990k Fully Restored....

    Chassis Number 003002 / Plate Number MO 42628 - Fiat 642 RN2 Bartoletti - Owned by Jon Shirley. Fully restored...

    From my research the other Ferrari Transporters are:

    Chassis Number 002989 / Plate Number MO 42629 - Fiat 642 RN2 Bartoletti - ex German Technik Museum. Fully restored...

    Chassis Number ????? / Plate Number MO 35150 - Fiat 642 RN Bartoletti - Transporter from the airport picture. Whereabouts unknown. Any more information on this one would be appreciated.

    Maserati Transporter

    Chassis Number ???? / Plate Number MO 43571 - Fiat 642 RN2 Bartoletti - Need information on this one. Whereabouts unknown.

    Scarab Transporter

    Chassis Number 001625 / Plate Number ??? - Fiat 642 RN2 Bartoletti - Scarab transporter, originally 2 axle converted to 3. Fully restored...

    Other Ferrari Transporter

    Chassis Number 007970 / Plate Number ???? - Fiat 643 N1 Rolfo - Ex Tom Shaughnessy, Sold at Goodings Pebble in 2007 for $297k. It was sold in unrestored but drivable condition. not sure where it is now or if it has been restored.

    If anything looks incorrect of if you have any additional information please add it!!!
     
  16. ilconservatore

    ilconservatore F1 Veteran

    May 18, 2009
    8,102
    Cincinnati Ohio
    have you ever driven transporters? 60mph can feel pretty hairy, especially on tight roads with traffic. Just being imaginative is all...
     
  17. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
    Moderator

    May 15, 2003
    4,119
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    #117 Boudewijn, Oct 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
    498
    Torino - ITALY
    Full Name:
    Andrea M.
    This is an intermediate license plate (picture of 1994) relative at the 642RN2 chassis # 002989 engine # 364A-018738 originally registered MO 42629.
    The many other plates of this truck are CR193373(I) - KVS 808 (UK) - H0 06623 (D) - ES 06054 (D) - ES F1957H (D).

    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  19. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
    498
    Torino - ITALY
    Full Name:
    Andrea M.
    #119 andymont, Oct 6, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011

    Scarab Transporter:
    The truck wasn't a Fiat truck 642RN2 but a transporter based on a bus chassis Fiat 306.


    Other Ferrari Transporter:
    Chassis Number 007970 -Fiat 643 N1 Rolfo 3 axles - Ex Tom Shaughnessy . The original plate was MO 138024

    Ciao
    Andrea
     
  20. fou

    fou Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2007
    2,174
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Call me the breeze
    #120 fou, Oct 6, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
    Just out of curiosity, and a question for you serious data guys: since Fiat 306 busses were produced for over 26 years, there have got to be thousands of these things sitting in either back yards or scrap yards all over Europe, right?

    If history be damned and serial numbers not an issue, couldn't most anyone with a few bucks, a blow torch, decals and some red paint make one? Not to steer too far off subject, but it does not look that hard to do. please, no flames.

    Edit: I am not trying to be funny, nor naive. I understand the historical import of these original documented carriers. But, should one want one enough, an Italian collo rosso could probably fabricate one in the driveway.
     
  21. fou

    fou Formula 3

    Feb 1, 2007
    2,174
    Central Virginia
    Full Name:
    Call me the breeze
    #121 fou, Oct 6, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
    Not to steer too far off the subject again, but I am: I had an old bus that caught fire on the way to see the Grateful Dead. Driving any old bus is always an adventure. And for the record, I have customized my share of old buses in my youth.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWesFLTuTA0[/ame]
     
  22. Bill_OBrien

    Bill_OBrien Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2004
    404
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Bill O'Brien
    Good catch... here is some additional information:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/automobiles/collecting-racing-transporters.html?pagewanted=all

    "The Scarab transporter began life as a Fiat Series 306/2 Alpine bus chassis, ordered by the Maserati Formula One team and outfitted by Carrozzeria Bartoletti. After Maserati withdrew from racing in 1957, the transporter was bought by Reventlow to carry the Scarab grand prix cars for the 1960 racing season in Europe."


    I have seen this mentioned in a few articles that the Scarab transporter was originally a Maserati transporter... any thoughts??
     
  23. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
    498
    Torino - ITALY
    Full Name:
    Andrea M.

    In my opinion, the Scarab Bartoletti opendeck has nothing to do with Maserati.

    It is true, on the other hand, that Maserati after his withdrawn from racing in 1957, sold a truck/van to Reventlow's Scarab team .
    But the truck in question was a Fiat truck (probably a 682 Rn) van bodied painted in grey and registered MO-30502 .
    This vehicle is still existing perfectly restored by SilmaBus of Modena.

    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  24. ilconservatore

    ilconservatore F1 Veteran

    May 18, 2009
    8,102
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Can't speak as to that - anything is possible...But does anyone have detailed photos of the transporter decks? How are cars loaded and unloaded? Does the top deck have a winch or did someone actually drive cars up there?

    Another post mentioned a special lift trailer to bring cars up to the top, but in the most recent rear-end photo pulleys and cables are visible - did the deck tilt downward?
     
  25. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula Junior

    Sep 11, 2009
    922
    Portland, OR
    Full Name:
    Ted
    It's probably been ten years and I don't remember where I read it...but, I recall a story of someone restoring a (Ferrari?) race transporter and making the comment that he had to trade a very rare Maserati motorcycle to have the complicated lift system restored. IIRC, it mentioned a complicated hydraulic system, but it might have been pulleys and cables...?
     

Share This Page