Who'd a Thunk a New Starter Would Help This Much!! | FerrariChat

Who'd a Thunk a New Starter Would Help This Much!!

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by dm_n_stuff, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 dm_n_stuff, Mar 23, 2005
    We (well actually, Tony my mechanic at Algar) put in the new starter from Superformance today.

    What a difference. Cranks twice as fast, car starts without any need to tip the throttle, and no more friggin' dead spots that cause a non-start from the starter. At $1300 for the part, not cheap, but worth it for the improved starting and peace of mind. Flipped the ring gear over to give the starter nice fresh teeth to bite into, too.

    It's a Bosch motor, and a little larger than the original, but, I'm not looking to win any concour events, I want a solid driver car.

    Once again, Tony and Mike at Superformance work together to make my car even better.

    Now those long trips will no longer put me into a panic about getting the car to start in order to come home.

    Now if I could just figure out how to attach those darn vent latches on the windows, and get them to stay there... but that's a problem for another day.

    Tomorrow, off for a run in the Dino.

    DM
     
  2. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2003
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    #2 Teenferrarifan, Mar 23, 2005
    Congrats Dave!!!!!!! When am I getting a ride? :) I sure will miss pushing the car.
    Erik
     
  3. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    #3 Edward 96GTS, Mar 23, 2005
    What were the specific indications that your starter was bad?
    Thanks
     
  4. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

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    #4 Teenferrarifan, Mar 23, 2005
    when you have to push the car to start it Ed! :) Sorry I had to say it. I think Dave's worked only when cold. As it is easier for the starter to work when cold instead of warm correct?
    Erik
     
  5. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 dm_n_stuff, Mar 24, 2005
    Originally, when hot, the starter would fail. Simply not spin or engage the motor at all. Then if you bumped the car slightly, put it in fifth gear and give it a little push by hand, then crank it, the starter would engage and spin the motor and it would start.

    It also was a little difficult to start, took a long time to crank when hot (20 seconds perhaps). And fairly long, maybe 5+ seconds to start cold.

    Lately, even when cold the starter would sometimes fail to spin the motor at all. The same slight jarring of the flywheel would move it a tooth and cause it to engage ok. Examination of the flywheel and ring gear indicated some wear at the the three contact points on the flywheel. Apparently the engine cycles in such a way as to leave the same three areas of engagement, (within three or four teeth) on the grears, which eventually causes wear,which exacerbates the problem.

    The bottom line is that there is a worm type gear within in the starter that plunges in and out of the starter gear itself, and that was severely worn, causing a lot of sloppiness in the mechanism. You can pull the atarter gear on my old one in and out maybe 1/2 inch, and there should be no play at all.

    Replacing the starter with one that spins the motor faster causes it to inhale fuel quicker, starts better, and, since there is no wear, the starter itself is reliable.

    DM
     
  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    #6 Edward 96GTS, Mar 24, 2005
    DM,
    Great post
    Thanks
    Ed
     
  7. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #7 synchro, Mar 24, 2005
    Years ago I had a dodgy starter experience - seemed to be very tempermental, but actually was well behaved for a while.

    All seemed well for a few months, and then at Monterey in 1994 I began having difficulty again. Rally day was OK, but usually took a couple of tries to engage the starter. At Track Day I took a friend for a drive around the track access road for vantage point photos. We got stuck for 2 hours at the Laguna Seca camping area parking lot! Finally it started and off we went.

    The humorous culmination was departure on the final day. I recall having to ask the parking attendants for a push start and then proceeded to drive for 15 hours straight without shutting the engine down (true!). Stopping at gas stations I parked at the furthest pump, left the engine running and quickly pumped gas.

    When I got home and finally had some time to look at it, I cleaned the wire connector contacts and applied light crimping pressure to the aircaft style connectors. They are located near the exhaust manifold and were a bit tricky, but I haven't had a problem since!

    Looking at the previous owner's service records I see he had the same problem - I'll bet heat affects the solenoid, so it is imperative to keep the electrical contact clean.
     
  8. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #8 ferrarifixer, Mar 25, 2005
    good stuff....

    now, for your 1/4 window catches.......

    design a small stainless bracket that, once folded, will slide over your window edge to wrap around both inside and out.

    Make sure it will fit into the exact spot that the catch needs to operate from.

    Then, BEFORE folding it, drill a hole in it and WELD the broken off catch into position through the hole you drilled. (Be careful to set up the catch properly, allowing for it's full travel etc.)

    Now fold it into shape, and slide it into position over the edge of the window, with some adhesive to hold it there, and some tape to hold it while the adhesive sets for a few hours.

    You now have a slightly modified, but attractive, window catch... that works...!

    Ta DAA!
     
  9. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 dm_n_stuff, Mar 25, 2005
    Fortunately, we had already done all that, and then some, in an effort to get the tired original starter to work better. It was just pooped.

    I'm looking around now for the parts to rebuild it, make a good practice run, then I'll probably put it on ebay and see what it goes for.

    DM
     
  10. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #10 synchro, Mar 25, 2005

    Why don't you rebuild it and keep it as a spare?

    I'm a pack rat for spares so that is just my mindset, but I had bought lots of items over a decade and now don't regret them at today's prices - a case of UFI oil filters, case of air filters, fuel filters, spare H2O pump, spare H20 rebuild kit, spare window shades, etc
     
  11. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #11 synchro, Mar 25, 2005
    PS - Was the starter installation pretty difficult? It is in a tight space.
     
  12. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    #12 Ken, Mar 25, 2005
    I've had 3 false starts on replacing my starter. It sits where it gets a nice bath in any stray gear oil, plus it's over 30 yeras old so I'm always waiting for it to die.

    The first time I almost replaced it I had a bad ground. The second time I almost replaced it I had the ignition too advanced so backpressure was making the cranking seem like a bad starter. The third time I almost replaced it I had a broken wire in the ignition switch.

    So my old starter is still cranking away. I'm so glad I was able to find the real problems before doing surgery!

    Ken
     
  13. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 dm_n_stuff, Mar 25, 2005
    Well I didn't do the work, but, the mechanic had to pull the header to get the new one in. It looked pretty *****y to me. The old one, which was slightly smaller, came out with the header in place, but only because the opening in which it sits had been slightly enlarged during a prior administration in order to facilitate the removal.

    Including a flip of the ring gear, it was about 7 hours on the bill.

    DM
     
  14. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 dm_n_stuff, Mar 25, 2005
    Even rebuilt, it's not gonna measure up to the replacement I put in there. But, because some folks want dead original, I will probably stick it somewhere when I'm done, unless I get some kind of ridiculous offer for it.

    DM
     
  15. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    #15 Ken, Mar 25, 2005

    Yeah, the new ones are tons better than any 20+ year old model. Anyone who wants the original is an idiot but it's a good selling point to include it with the car anyway.

    Ken
     

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