WHO'S TURN IS IT?

If I'm on the inside and you want my part of the track, don't you dare think that you can take it! You stay in your outside lane and I'll stay in mine. Let's race for a few turns and see who gets what. To give up because someone is beside you is very odd.

If I'm on the outside and even a little behind, I will stay in it until you have your whole car in front of me, then I will say, "you won the battle". I wouldn't want anyone to feel presure to back off because of a turn.

Everyone should be given enough room to drive through a turn and keep going with out being pushed off the track.

 

It's always my corner.

 

It's racing--there is no fault.

It's still my corner.

 

But I race in the US regularly. I thought that what this discussion was about--racing. And it seems you still don't get it, but I'm sure you make a great motor racing fan.

 

Bob, I'm glad I'm not racing with you, either <grin>!

This thread could certainly spiral out of control, but realistically, screwing someone by "taking your line" because you are half a car length ahead, behaving like I (the passer) don't exist and expecting me to "helicopter" out of your way because of some mistaken assumption that you have a "right" to the corner, is absurd.

You and I have an obligation to "leave racing room" (SCCA GCR 9.1.1 is a good definition) for each other, sufficient so that neither one of us take each other out. Let the CORNER sort out who will come out ahead, not CONTACT! Yes, sometimes I do "trade paint" with my competitors, but it's because we are three abreast headed into T1 at Lime Rock or Summit Point and we all want to go through there TOGETHER, but none of us "slam the door" on each other, sufficient so that NONE of us are able to continue. I know the guys I'm racing with and WANT to share a beer and a laugh after the race. I DON'T want to be known as a pig-headed, stubborn "squirrel" who can't be trusted to go side-by-side into the corner with someone (or many).

Unless it's the Winston Million, and you have a half-dozen spare cars lined up to replace the one you just wrote off, you need to approach this with some common sense. I spend a lot of time studying my opponents, firstly to determine whether they are reasonable, rational and disciplined in their car placement and their behavior towards others. I'm aware that people who I speak with in the pits can become Mr. Hyde when the visor comes down, but the whole question is, can I trust them?

I wrote an article dealing with this for Grassroots Motorsports http://www.bmwclub.ca/motorsport/articles/ccrart05.htm a couple years ago and teach at BMWCCA Club Racing, Sportscar Vintage Racing Association, SCCA and have, in the past, run the circuit orientation for Skip Barber's Labor Day event. I also race in 15-20 amateur sports car races a year (for the last twenty years). The more you do this, the more you realize that there must be COOPERATION between racing drivers to get through corners unscathed. Some you can count on for that cooperation, some you can't.

Do your homework <very big grin> and you'll be fine.

-Peter

 

Besides, there is never any incident until someone decides to pass...

THAT'S why there are "rules of the road."

-Peter (let's GO, Brian! <grin>)

 

Peter, originally this discussion was about F1 and professional sports car racing. While gentlemanly driving has a place in club and vintage racing, it does generally does not in professional-level competition.

It's still my corner.

 

I hear you, Brian, but in professional racing, especially that which encompasses and combines multi-class racing, the "less quick" classes are instructed to "yield" to the big cars, hence a corner is not necessarily the 911 GT3 driver's when the LMP1 car shows up at Big Bend at Lime Rock closing on the slower car at over 50 mph. If you're the 911 driver, is it still your corner when you both dive for the apex and BOTH spin off?

I think Bob is confusing the idea of your "it's my corner" simplistic and factual truism with the increasingly common displays of stupidity or unawareness on the part of some overtaking drivers, that was my only point.

Racing is racing, vintage or Le Mans Prototype, SCCA National or Grand Am Cup. It's an intellectual exercise, not a bull ring! <grin>

-Peter

 

Perhaps for you and I, but not for two-thirds of the Grand Am Cup and Rolex fields!

Anyway, I'm of the Gilles Villeneuve mindset--be the fastest all the time, every time--so, stay out of the way, or I'll force the issue.

It's still mine!

 

Dear Mr. B-Mak:

On behalf of all the just slightly irrational racers everywhere, we would like to petition you to establish a web site identifying when and where you will be laying claim to "your corner."

While we have to to be slightly nuts to even venture on the track, we are not full blown loonies as you profess to be. Thus, and accordingly, we are quite willing to cede to you whatever corners you wish.

All the best, sincerely yours, with deepest gratitude --

What is left of the rational world.

Dale

 

In our karting series it is explained as a 2/3rds rule, as in "if you are being overtaken by a car sufficiently faster that he has drawn (from behind) 2/3rds of your car, you are being passed!

So give way....

And of course in a spec series like that, anyone involved in an incident is knocked so far off, that the WHOLE field flashes by while you drag your car out of the haybales!

Lost on modern drivers apparently, regardless of equipment expense.....and even in our series the results of locking opposing rotation tires is dramatic and instant......

 

The Audi last weekend did it perfectly, blending thru back markers without even braking...it was beautiful to watch, IMO...

Even passing for the lead, no contact, no drama...

That's how you win!!!!

 

Since no one seems to get it, I'll have to spell it out.

A young lad climbing the ladder of professional motor racing does not get to the top of that proverbial ladder by being a sissy and ceding corners wherever danger is present. Hence, the same mindset pervades most levels of motor racing to one degree or another. F1 is perhaps the best example of said mindset.

Ex-formula car pilots often end up in sports cars and, thus, you see marginal moves in ALMS, GAR, etc. Their aggressiveness is quite a mismatch for the gentlemen drivers that make up the rest of those fields. Gentlemen drivers have their own issues, but that's another discussion.

(Ron Fellows is a shining example of the opposite, and perhaps 'North American', mindset. I don't recall the last time he pulled a low-probabilty move on a competitor.)

This pass-at-all-costs mindset is what we've been discussing, yes?

 

Hah! I love Ron, but that outside pass on the Viper on the last lap for the win at Long Beach in the World Challenge GT race was at least a "maybe/maybe not" move! <very big grin, AWESOME move>

I don't call the Paul Edwards/Joey Hand incident a "ex-formula car pro among the gentlemen-amateurs" move. They BOTH have huge top-echelon PROFESSIONAL formula car experience. Difference is, Paul was driving like he knew he now had fenders on and it didn't matter where he stuck his nose in. That bone-headed move cost Matt Connolly a nice car and could have really hurt Joey...

-Peter (I thought we were talking about bone-headed moves and manning up enough to take responsibility for them...)

 

I've always been a Ron Fellows fan and I was jumping up and down when I saw him setting that up. THAT is why it's fun to race and to watch racing.

 

Bah! That wasn't a low probability move! The guy he passed was a gentleman Viper Club racer who plays race cars with pros. It was like taking candy from a baby!

Indeed, that was two professional drivers racing and one ending up in an unfortunate situation. Easily could have been worse for Joey.

 

If you are on the inside and I am on the outside and you have a 3 foot lead, I will stay on the outside of you until you drive ahead of me and have the position. If I'm on the inside and you are on the outside, I will drive ahead of you and hold the position.