Why a Stick Shift Defines the Driver

Theres also the other side of driving them, worrying about leaving the car alone and the attention factor, sometimes you are not up to the hassle.

I am guilty, I have taken my Diablo out a handful of times but each time it brings the crazies out, last time got pulled over 3 times in 3 days doing nothing wrong, cops followed us into the parking lot at Walmart oil change area flipping lights on when we parked insisting it was a replica lol, women screaming as they drive past the car or walking, one my wife called "alley cat" came out from behind a trailer park dumpster as we were getting fuel and yelled "hows it going"?

Another time we drove into the Fiesta casino in Henderson to eat at the buffet and I was driving in the parking garage revving the motor a bit and parked some maintenance guy came up and said I parked in his spot yelling lol, its all open parking there nothing reserved and plenty of open spaces, like I said you gotta be up for anything.

 

I agree with this

 

this whole manual Ferrari vs Auto Ferrari is a little crazy for example there are those that would be willing to pay a lot for a 575 3 pedal last I heard they were selling for maybe 3 times the price of an F1,,..... However the 550 is virtually the same car and all of them came with a manual you know 3 pedal... yet they sell for similar prices to an F1 575 maybe a few dollars more..
If you want a manual Porsche still offer many models with manual yet the only one anyone cares about is a GT3 or 911R... seems crazy.....
The only new Ferrari that would be fun with a manual is maybe if they came out with a new V6 DINO that would be nice with a 3pedal... once the cars get to fast they just don't seem right with a 3pedal... it slows things up ...

 

A whole lotta truth right there...

I love when people say its the last porsche 911 with a 6 speed... well time and time again they get proven wrong... but also... there is a 911 a 911s and about 27 other variants therein

 

But if you have driven a 7 speed porche manual transmission then you know its a pretty crappy experience. Its certainly not the tactile pleasure that was the rifelbolt precision of the 997Gt3.

That all the ones people care about at the R and the Gt3 says much about who buys what porche and why. If you were seriously into the drivign experience the porche Gt cars(ie most of the 991 range) are ok but nowhere near the driving experience of an R or Gt3, so if you cared you would go for one of those.

if you bought a proche just for crusing to yor dental practice/law firm/bank etc then a regular 991 of some flavor works perfrectly and the harder nature of a Gt3/4 is a drawback.

The way I see it, there are very few roads and places where you can relly experience any moderns performance. That means for a drivers driver the car needs to be entertainig on street ie a stick great tactile steering na motor and not so synthesized that it can only thrill through sheer pseed(ie pretty much most moderns) At the same time the car needs to be accomplished on track where you will really wring it out.

in my book the gt3 and Gt4 fit that bill perfectly, if you can groove witht he whole proche thing.

Modern ferraris way to accomplished to excite on street(yes sheer speed thrills but thats different) and at the same time there are far better choices for taking to De events.

its no surprise that ferraris have such low mileage on them. Depreciation is one factor, the other as petearon says, what are you going to do with it. Driving below 100-150 is hardley enetrtainign or exciting in a modern ferrari on road. Yet at the same time depreciation and relatively ruinous runnign costs negate going to the track with them. Therefore serious drivers mostly apply elsewhere. yes there are a few fabulopusly rich epopel who are real drivers and care not one whit for the cost or depreciation and just love the track drive. But of ferrari owners, real drivers are what 10% and of those an even smaller percentage can afford not to care at all on track.

I cant think of the last time I saw a ferrari at a track event. Well actulay there was one F12 2 months ago, iyt was also the slowees car in the beginners group. So kudos to the owner for trying, but he also seemed far more interested in sitting next to the car with the hood open and taking questions. Which says everything about most ferrari owners and why they buy the car.

Not to say that its all about as stick. From what i have read the lambo performante enetertains on road and is superlative on track. If the german way is not your thing this seems to be the way to go for an exotic.

in my book though, if youre going to drive on the street for entertainment, and youre going to be doing a fair amount of tracking, the answer is pretty much always lotus.
Above that its Gt3 and performante. One could make the GT4 vette arguement too. But realisticalky thats it.

The rest are pretenders and really Gt cars that can maybe turn a few fast laps before soemthing melts or fades.

Back to the op. Last week at the glenn someone showed up in our group. he had never driven on track before and had also had a sucession of BMw M series cars. He now owns a cayman Gts with a stick. Even in the beginners group his comment was that untill going on track he had never properly experienced the car, and he was needless to say hooked.

a car that is enetrtaining to drive at semi sane speeds on road and accomplished for a day on track is imo a real 21st century drivers car, the rest are for posing or self agrandisement. This why somewhere between the 355 and the 458 ferraris became irrelevant if you really like to drive. Well if you live in Germany or the Me maybe a modern ferrari is relevant as a drivers car.

Think about it, if you really loved to drive a Mclaren 570 is a far better and more relevant choice than the 720.

 

he is really a great driver. Interestingly he is selling the 458, as he put it, too fast/boring on street and not really useable on track. He is getting a 458 challenge car though.

He also has a Yamaha R1 M, with a power shifter and mountian bike footpegs. that way he can attach his feet tot he bike and ride it on some tracks.

 

Wow. A chipped Hayabusa. What's it like to walk around with basketball size balls? Glad you're still around. Bravo.

 

Agree with much of what you said...

To your first comment a short shifter fixes most of that.

Where I am at we do see ferraris at track day evens. not tons... but we do see them. We might be abnormal in this I suppose.

But saying that most ferrari drivers prefer to pop the hood and sit next to there car at the track after seeing this only once... is a bit... umm... unfair will be what I use.

Also concerning ferraris and low mileage etc... yes... we can all go on ebay and see all of the mileage PILED on those Porsche GT3 and RS cars... TONS of miles on all of them... Ohh wait... most have less than 500 miles.

The porsche crowed with this latest porsche bubble has taken on the same ownership experience (or lack there of) ... and have bought for keeping not driving... or flat out resale. To say there is a difference between them is to fool yourself.

I agree with you 100% after the 355 the cars haven't really been drivers cars. The 458 is a phenominal car... still not sure its a drivers car... but it is tremendously capable and a great car overall.

If you want a great driving experience buy a boxster spyder. That is a great driving experience. One of the most fun cars to drive... and it won't kill you by having to go 150mph to make you feel like you are doing something. I actually wish ferrari would build something like a boxster spyder

 

If you want an exciting experience at the speed limit, there are less powerful cars that can be very exciting and offer a visceral experience.

The Morgan Three Wheeler is pretty much an airplane, motorcycle, and car slammed into one crazy fun vehicle at any speed. You even wear WW I pilot gear whilst driving it. It comes with a Mazda sourced 5-speed manual and zero-assisted steering.

Other options include Mazda Miata, Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ, Porsche Boxster / Cayman, etc.

For track, there are many dedicated track cars that can run circles around exotic cars for much less money - but, they can only be enjoyed at the track. Also, track insurance is very very expensive; most just self insure (willing to take a loss if you crash).

 

Funny with rare exceptions I find modern porches bland. Adding eps and a crappy shifting 7 speed didnt improve things. The one modernish porche I really loved was 997.2 Gt3, more so than the carerra Gt I drove. Havent tried a boxter spyder. I do find caymans a bland experience too, somehow there is just one to many layers of isolation. Yes the caymans boxters are very capable on track, and a fully track prepped one is hard to beat, I have not tried a GT4.

I gave up on the street track combo years ago, my track car now arrive on trailer and are spelled Lotus. That being said the sheer velocity of the new 991 GT3 on track impresses.

We agree post 355 the ferraris may be stunning to look at(458), and very capable, theyre just not drivers cars.

Even though i am not a porche guy, I applaud porche then for offering drivers cars in the 911R GT4 and GT3 and wish ferrari would make simialr offerings. No the speciale was not it, not least becasue a car effectively marketed as an instant collectable is not really useable. That their prices immediatly escalated due to said marketing/restrictive supply made them even more limited.

Yes the porche crowd has made a bubble. But then proiche made enough GT4s that there really was only a bubble in some dealers minds. The stick 991 Gt3 blows the R bubble out the water, so porche at least makes enough drivers cars that with some effort you can buy and track one. Maybe only 20% of Gt3s go to the track, but thats still a few thousand cars.

Didnt say all ferrari owners pop the hood, just that the only one I have seen at the track in a long while was so motivated. On many a ferrari club run, seems the newer guys are most interested in discussing their Cf options and showign the cf cladding on the engine bay. Its just the customer segment ferrari is most focussed on. However exclusively chasing the I have lots of bucks crowd has led to a dimunition in product excellence from a drivers perspective, and ferraris were always cars for drivers. Looking at proche we see that off two platforms they have built a wide range of cars suiting many segements and tastes.

While I have yet to drive one, the performante appears to be THE italian exotic, or exotic in general to drive to the track and run all day, as well as being a car entertaining on road, even though its paddles. Along with the Gt3 and any lotus to me its a car for Drivers in the know. I wont leave out vettes, they are very capable and seem to uniquely stadle a fine line between techno capable and driver car,the grand sport also seems to an in the know car. I personaly just dont love the sitting in front of the rear wheels thing, the3y seem overkill for my roads and a little too rad car for the track, but thats just me.

Have very high hopes for the mid engined vette esp if they do version in the vein of the c6 zo6..

 

Never said speed limits. Just road attainable speeds, which is a very different thing, more like fast driving within some reasonable bounds of sanity. Ie fast but still"safe" as opposed to stupid exotic crash.

Love morgans, always have, spent a weekend in the english countryside with a young lady and a morgan many years ago. thye 3 wheeler seems great. Already have a mtorocycle and for me the limitations of $ means mine would be better enjoyed elsewhere.

Miatas are great, I am putting together a s2 one as a road track beater for here and there. BRz nevr lit my fire. Both these cars are great, but their motors are a bit of a damp squid, vibratey etc. And as much as I would love to say I have the maturity or aged wisdom to just care about the corners, a great smooth reving reasonably powerful motor is a very enjoyable part of the car experience on road and track for me. yes i get the whole momentum thing, its why I still run my elise on track here and there, keeps me in form.

The boxter caymans, to me have one too many layers of isolation, and seem kinda big when youre sitting in them. Maybe I am just not a porche guy. However the rumored boxter Gts with gt3 engine sounds like possibly all the car anyone could want.

Back to ferrari. Its an asthetic. Somone once said that cars and bikes were like shoes, different ones for different uses and moods. Ferrari to me has lost the sunday backroad blast mood(unless you really have unpoliced open roads) and its fairly low down on the list of take to the track mood. The latter comment is both my impression of the ones I tried and what people who have all the "nice" new ferraris and other cars in the stable tell me. Yeah maybe youll try it out on track to see, but that seems to be about it.


My personal default then has been keeping the boxer for the ocasional sunday drives, a lotus elise (na 195hp 1975lbs) to just get in and run down to the farm store and general backroad drives and occasional small track use. An Exige V6 cup for the track(that suercharged highlander motor is as smooth and toneful as any ferrari v12) a chevy equinbox for civillian duty, and besides just running it every month for a few miles to keep it all going, I have yet to really drive the e46 m3 this year.

Budget unlimited a 997.2 Gt3 or even a singer porche for the farm store run and going here and there. I woudl probably add a chevron B16 and Gt3 for track duty to the exige.

As for sedans the only one I really seem to like these days is the bently Mulsanne, which to me is a real car. All other cars these days seem anethsthetised and overpowered, trying to get clients with feature/gadget differentiation.

The equinox actualy steers well (thank you mr Lutz.) and its v6 is nice spinner, like a miata or morgan you have to work for your speed and it entertains at a lower rate of travel. Plus you just know the cop is going to pull over the guy in red audi over you.

I gues the world is differentiated into people who want one car that can do it all, Mclaren ferrari and many porche, mostly becasue their use is more for going to resteraunts concors, golf clubs group drives etc.

Then those of us who still like a car with a driver focus, miata, brz, GT3 GT4, perforamnte and any lotus. We'll happily put up with certain percieved "drawbacks" stick, live chassis, a steering that talks to the road etc becasue the feedback tactility etc that are part of the focus is so rewarding and the reason why we are driving a sportscar exotic on that particular day. Put another way, some of us like certain sportscars for the sheer joy of the drive be it on road or track. Conceptualy a miata and Gt3 have far more in common than a 488 and a GT3. To me the idfference between the miata and Gt3 stick is one of bandwidth not concept. The maiat may well be more enjoyable on many ocasiosn because its fun to drive a slow car fast. But then soem fast cars are also fun at "slower" speeds.