I respectfully disagree. There are over 100 1963-1967 "mid year" Corvettes for sale on eBay, with 40 of them over $50K, about 10 over $100K. Demand for the mid year Corvette is surely close to that of the Dino, with orders of magnitude more supply. Supply and demand is not the aggravating factor at work. No way. It's a contributor, but not the major reason for the price differential. Desirability is much more the reason - the Dino, being an "Enzo era" car - has something to do with the cachet. The perception that the 308 - a FIAT era car - being "mass produced" is playing with the valuation. You can't possibly say production has anything to do with it. My E-Type - of which 70,000 were made (6x MORE than the 308) - is valued at maybe 2x the 308. The aforementioned mid-year Corvette - of which over 117,000 were made (10X MORE than the 308) - is valued about 2x - 3x the 308. It doesn't add up.
This I agree with - style and panache (or as I say "desirability") is driving it. Hogwash on production numbers...
But, style and tastes change over time. And, so do speculators opinions of where the market is heading. I think current Dino prices are more driven by speculation than owner appreciation. Owners do appreciate them... but the prices are reflective of some degree of speculation in the market. Otherwise, the BB's would be 50% more in value than a Dino as stated before. I was looking at getting a Fiat Dino Spider. I figured you could get a decent driver for maybe 25-30 grand. If you look at Alfa Duetto spiders of the same period, it would seem to make sense. Forget it. They are 10 grand more than a similar 308 and even more than some good 328's. Give me a break! It's a FIAT with a Dino engine. It's a nice car but it ain't worth no 70 grand. It's just following the speculator coattails of the 246.
The panache of the Dino is undeniable, but I wonder if it has to do with my ability to obtain one. I recall declining to buy one in 1983, and rather getting a new 308 (which I still have); at the time I felt the Dino was "dated", and the test drive disappointed me in its performance. All factors taken into account, the matter of availability becomes the most salient: From the psychological standpoint, there is an inverse realationship between available and desirable. Point in case is the 288 GTO. Direct descendant of the 308 in style, but no longer available to ordinary mortals at any reasonable price. Thus, orders of magnitude above my 308 in desirability, and able to substantiate whatever price its owner wishes. Fortunately not a problem for me. TN
I owned one throughout the 80's and I can tell you that "Ferrari" people looked down their noses BIG TIME at all Dino badged cars. Dino's were FIAT'S and Ferrari's were Ferrari's. That's why you see so many Dino's with Ferrari badges and horses. Owners back then wanted some recognition that it wasn't "a Fiat". (I refused to do that BTW). Today, it's different. But back then, she was the ugly stepsister. She was the "California" of her day... what's "wrong" with Ferrari (more Fiat involvement, less performance, a V-6, cheaper, less exclusive, higher production, etc). The public liked the cars but those with Prancing Horse logos pretty much poo-pooed it.
What I would like to know is if dino prices are going to fall soon,and hopefully to a level I consider they should be worth ( about $80,000).
It has nothing to do with price or performance. It's all about looks. 10,000% The first Ferrari I ever got a close look at, was a fly-yellow 246 sitting next to a red 308 GT4, in the showroom at Ferrari of Los Gatos in the mid 1970's. The GT4 was priced higher, but I didn't care. It didn't have the "racecar" looks of the 246. In fact, I dreamed of having one of those cars until I was in my mid-40's and got my GT4. Now of course, I appreciate the practicality of the GT4. And in many ways, it is a better car. But it will never look like a 246. I loved the curves of the 246 and it's always been one of my favorite Ferraris.
Sometimes, but some cars are timeless (Jag E-Type roadster, Merc 300SL, early Porsche 911...) Whether current values are sustainable, the 246 GTS was the end of the old school, classic line of Ferraris, and its looks have stood the test of time. I don't see it, or the Daytona, ever being regarded as unattractive or dated. Also, they are basically technology-free cars, in a digital sense, so meet the criteria for a "forever" car. Style and tastes may change, but a well-cut navy blue suit will always look good, and a Daytona or 246 GTS will always be among the classiest cars on the road. We have enough distance between now and when they were made to judge them, and the market seems to be doing just that. I'm sure there is speculation going on at the $200K+ level right now, but realistically these cars have a very solid floor at $100K for the GTs. They are usable, restorable, beautiful classic cars in a way the modern stuff will never be. In the same way, I'm seeing top end Porsche 356A coupes edging into the $80K-$100K range for the really best examples, because guys want classic cars they can drive, and all that chrome and steel ain't coming back in the next '911' or 458.
nope. Not gonna happen. Current prices seem to be on the rise, substantially. Will they drop? Sure, all prices seem to rise and fall. Will they drop to $80K. Not likely. You might find a wreck, literally, for less than that, and then you can spend $100K to put it right. Unfortunately, you don't get to set the market on these. D
Both cars a classic in my eyes. Its just I will always prefer the Dino its just sexier and the lines on the Dino are endless in true form and design. Dino's will always be in demand. It was also named after Enzo's Son. John
I agree with Dave, prices go up and come down. Currently, the cheapest advertised Dino's on the market are: GT $149,900 GTS $169,900 I don't see a drop of 50% on the horizon unless the whole economy falls into the toilet. I think we all vision based on our experiences with what we know and like. I started off with a 308 but always wanted a Dino. At this time, the prices were pretty darn near one another. The decision for me was what could I afford. That statement isn't about initial investment. It is about the differences in costs to keep the car running and the fact that you need someone who can source parts. That was 15 years ago, the internet has helped MASSIVELY with that, but Dino's aren't common, nor are the parts or knowledge to keep them on the road. The 308 drives very much like a Dino. I have always described the experience as one like a high powered go-kart. Just the 308 has a lot more power......
As a GT4 owner I feel very much concerned by this subject, and enjoyed reading your comments. I lean towards those voting for the Wow factor as the foremost price driver for the Dinos. These cars are insanely sexy. But, digging deeper in the potential causes of significant increases in "value", I think one should not underestimate 2 other factors: - The general condition of the cars on the market - Dino 246s in average are better cared for than GT4s (or even 308), which obviously has an impact on the average transaction - The consideration from the (so-called) "cognoscenti" as a previous poster said To make myself clear: it makes sense today to buy a pristine GT4 for 60 000$. That is still lower - at least here in France and if you are not a mechanic - than what it costs to buy an average example and make it right. But tell many Ferraristi that you are buying a GT4 for that money, you will be politely laughed at, if not considered stupid. I have seen examples here on FChat . This attitude is not likely to encourage potential buyers Of course the 3 factors are correlated: 1) for some reason (can be the looks, the technical significance, admittance in selected events...) a specific model starts getting attention, which initiates price increase 2) people / merchants start restoring the cars as they feel they may finally get a ROI 3) as a result the average condition and transaction price go up and the community starts giving more consideration at that specific model... that draws all the more attention, and so on. The key is getting to step 2... We are not there yet. Yves
The collector car market is up and down like a toilet seat at a baseball game. But I fear the numbers many of these cars were getting in the 90's and early 2000's are a thing of the past. I can see a number of these cars tanking heavily in value over the next 10-15 years. The younger generation just doesn't want the old expensive exotic cars. When they get older, the collector car will be the Mucilagao, the 599 GTO etc. Not the 246 Dino, or the 308. They just won't pay the insane money for them. They are too far removed from that area of automobile history. These are the cars WE wanted when they were new but couldn't have them, the 16-20 somthings (the next car guys) don't really "get" the old stuff like we do.
But models T and A Fords still carry a solid price even though those that purchased them or rode around in them as children are mostly gone.
Good point but I think its something the Boomers are in to, like Brass era and 57 chevys used to garner big $$$$. Now they do not. totally agree. None of my mid 30's car buddies like any of the pre 1970 stuff, American or euro, and much past 199? they cars are too technical or too fast to really use on public roads and have any fun. Not sure why the next age group is so focused on big dollar Dinos and such. i would rather buy other things for the money than cars at those price points.
I've seen some people referring $150k prices for Dinos and one that they wouldn't go to 250k. Well, here's one to spark the debate further. http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-246GTS-08304 Onno
My apologies for being so crude, but that statement is so wrong that it is best characterized as bul**** (at least in Europe).
Hmmm, I paid $45K for mine, and then set about investing another $20K in it. That $60K GT4 makes perfect sense to me!
Very interesting thread and good points. Allow me to add my 2 cents worth, having driven both extensively, and being lucky to own a 246GT. It's a question of taste of course, but in my experience the Dino attracts universal smiles and attention that a 308 can never hope for. It's just a much, much better looking car for a majority of people. Curves always win. The Dino is eligible to participate in the great classic events like the Tour de France, Le Mans, The Targa Florio, and all the great Italian rallies. 308's, on the other hand, can put snow tires on and do the MonteCarlo... Nobody has sufficiently commented on the Dino engine. Never diss the Dino V6: F1 WDC with Hawthorne, numerous racing victories, glorious prototype racers, and more that 10 years of competition development, resulting in a fantastic sound, and the knowledge that you are being pushed by a very close derivative of a pure racing engine. And it feels that way. No such history can be evoked with the 308's V-8, even though Ferrari did race a few (very few) V-8's. The 308 handles very well. The Dino dances. Finally, a confession of absolute and open bias: I am in love with my Dino. I love it more than my V-12's, and would sell my V-12's before I sold the Dino. I know this sounds absurd, and I don't understand it myself: The Dino is special. Perhaps that's why it's so much more expensive... P.S. I would be happy to own a glass carbed 308. One day perhaps...
I have a 308GTB and my brother has a 246GT which are the two cars each one of us has wanted since the beginning of time. We have watched the values climb and fall over the decades and, having read all of the posts thusfar, believe that the value of the cars are not a function of how good a car they are and even not so much due to the numbers built. The value comes in what the enhusiast population has deemed it to be. I can say that the Dino gets a lot more attention than the 308 by people who know next to nothing about the cars let alone the value of them so there has to be something to that in determining values. I would like to make two points though: 1. Determining future car values is not an exact science nor is it predictable. If it was we would all do it and make a ton of money at it. As such applying straight logic to it just does not work and often times it is merely up to the whims of fashion and trend. 2. One of the reasons my brother and I enjoy our cars as much as we do is that we consider them to be totally worthless and in no way part of our net worth. Attaching dollar values and metering them as an enjoyment ratio to expense takes a lot of fun out of it for us. We prefer to take the 'I love it and can afford it or not' attitude rather than 'Am I paying too much or what will it be worth in x time'. Let the insurance companies worry about values and I'll just enjoy the ride.
