Why are Dinos worth 5 to 10 times a 308?

Not entirely accurate. I believe the V6 and V8 motors can be traced back to the same lineage and same development project, with the 308's V8 being a more evolved version of the motor, and first used in the 246/268 - which is a hec of a lot of lineage right there.

I still don't get the Dino's premium, it's cute, but with the chrome bumpers and headlight shape it reminds me of a '73 Camaro. But I respect everyone's opinion, a lot of this debate is all subjective and open to people's different perceptions. My first exposure to Ferrari, up close and personal, was to the 308 GT4, so that model and the 308 to me represent the ultimate design.

The market however, doesn't make sense to me. For instance, why is the 365/410/412 so under priced/undervalued? Here's a descendant of the Daytona, produced in very limited numbers, is (in my opinion) a gorgeous, understated elegant car, and has a Ferrari 12 cylinder motor.

And yet prime examples are sub-40k. Go figure....

 

Now that is something I have never heard.

I've been asked "What year Corvette is that?" quite a few times, but never had anyone mistake a Dino for a Camaro....... I guess there is always a future chance

 

+1 - and is the question that the Dino is overvalued or is the 308 undervalued?

 

Rarely, but sometimes, it all comes together: The design, the performance, and the history are so perfectly balanced that the product transcends the merely automotive, and becomes something superior and different. It becomes Art (note the capital A).

And that is what the market is reacting to. That is why a California (the real one) is worth a fortune out of all proportion to its value as a mere car. That is why a Lusso is worth 4 times more than my far superior GTC (or 5 times more than my far more interesting 250 PF), That is why a Dino is worth so much more than a 308, or a 412.

A 308 (great looks and performance!) or a 412 (A Daytona V12 for four!) are just cars. Dinos, on the other hand, are magic.

Hence the current valuations. Neither the 308 is undervalued, nor the Dino overvalued: They are just very different things.

IMO.

 

Interesting statement. I'm not sure I agree, but it brings out something that I notice on the forum, which might relate to how people perceive 308s vs. Dinos.

This doesn't apply to all posts or owners, but I've seen lots of posts regarding people looking for aftermarket modern style wheels, aftermarket pedals, shifters, and mods to get more power out of 308s (and 328s).

Yet when I see posts about Dino's its more about restoring and maintaining them. Not modifying them. (Yes, there are lots posts about restoring and maintaining 3X8s).

But perhaps within our own community its the owners that see a need to "improve" 3X8s that create an image that the cars as they left the factory are not fun to drive, and that modernizing them and modifying them would improve them both in terms of appearance and fun. As we all know in the world of collectible vehicles original cars are generally worth more than modified cars, and completely original unrestored cars in excellent shape are generally worth more than well restored cars. If lots of owners view the cars as being in need of mods, what overall image does that send out about 3X8s to car enthusiasts or collector market?

Dino owners seem content to enjoy their cars as they are and live with and maybe even embrace the car's imperfections. Maybe if 3X8 owners eventually view their cars as valuable vehicles that should be kept original condition it would help bolster their values and how they are perceived by the market as a whole.

This isn't so much a post regarding why the values are different (thats already been discussed by previous posters: looks, design, production numbers/relative rarity, etc), its more a difference maybe in the mentality of owners or potential buyers of Dinos and 3X8s.

Best regards,
Dino

 

Could that be because the 308 is usually the entry point for a lot of Ferrari owners and those that buy it are trying to maximize the Ferrari experience? That includes speed in a lot of perceptions. The Dino, with it's price tag could easily be a second sports car for the owner? Just a guess...

 

Anything is possible. People can do whatever they want with their cars. I was merely noting that there seems to be a cut off between the Dino and the 308 in terms of people modding their cars.

So it just made me think, would people that mod 308s also mod Dinos, and find Dinos a rather unsatisfying to drive otherwise? Your statement suggests that owning a 308 is not enough of the Ferrari experience. Yet owning a Dino is enough of a Ferrari experience? Certainly its not based on performance as the Dino isn't faster than a 308. I'm also not sure that a Dino handles better than a 308 (I rode in a 246GTS once when I was 10, so I can't directly compare their handling). So is it based simply on price? I don't know. I think both are exceptional cars. I always thought all Ferraris convey a proper Ferrari experience, and the differences are simply based on technology and legal requirements of the time. I'm not sure at what point a vehicle really conveys a complete Ferrari (Aston Martin, Porsche, Duesenberg etc) experience. Is it largely based on the value of the car, its performance, its appearance, or the way it makes its owner feel about the overall vehicle?

Just more thoughts/questions to which there are probably many correct answers depending on the buyer/driver.

Best regards,
Dino

 

Can't draw generalizations. I own a 308 because that's the one I wanted. I would imagine I'm not unique (despite what my wife says about me) and that there are other 308 owners who are similar, who's resources could put then in a bunch of other cars within the Ferrari line up or into other brands, but who chose a 308.

I've been thinking of acquiring a 2nd Ferrari, but still won't part with my 308, it would remain my "primary" Ferrari, as it is to me the pinnacle of a car. So it's all subjective.

Julio's speaking from a 246 owner's point of view much the same way I'm speaking as the 308 owner. And owner's who love their stuff tend to rewrite history a bit to suite their perception. The reality of the 246 is it was an attempt by Ferrari to create a non Ferrari brand of less cost and less capabilities to make a car more appealing to buyers of lesser means, resulting in boosting sales and revenue. And yet here we are, 40 years later, with the 246 at record asking prices.

Bdelp said it earlier in this thread....tastes change. You can't draw any conclusion by the market today, or from the market 20 years ago, or 20 years from now. It will all be different.

My take - acquire the car/model you love. Don't over pay going in. Don't worry about what the resale market conditions are or may be one day. Take care of your Ferrari, as we are all just stewards in a sense, and these are special cars, all of them. And when you're done, get out for the right reasons. And don't give a rats behind about what other people think or say.

 

That owner difference certainly exists, but it may be caused by rather than causing the price difference. 308 prices are low enough to appeal to the gearhead community, the people who enjoy modifying and using machinery. If prices rise, the gearheads will likely move on to another platform.

 

Agree with that. Cars at the bottom on the food chain get modified more. It is a big issue with 308's and the cars will be expensive to return to original when/if the values go up (don't forget, now you can customize your new Ferrari anyway you want as long as you pay them to do it for you! Some of those are really over the top). You used to see Dino's with Gigantic horses on the back, shields etc... when dino was still a stigma. Not now with the values. The Dino was stuck with the entry Ferrari tag for a long time but that passed to the 308.

 

Another interesting observation:

1. With the 308 it is often seen as the 'starter' Ferrari and I am often asked when I will be trading up.

2. The 246 is seen as 'one in a collection' and my brother is asked frequently what else he has.

Interestingly we rarely if ever get the opposite ones question.

 

That's an interesting observation..

There's lots of great comments in the thread!!

I was once touring a guest couple around one of Franco's parties, pointing out what I knew about each of the models, up the brand new examples. The couple spotted Franco and told him of my assistance and he responded:

"You are talking with the right guy!"

I was proud of that.

I suppose someday I may move on to other models, (Look! An Enzo in FerrariAds!) but will always recall fondly the way my early 308GTBs drive and "feel".

 

Maybe all those years of Magnum PI exposure made the instantly-recognized 308 too "vulgar" for the high roller market.

 

Except the Dino was always considered the "starter Ferrari" for most of it's existance until the late 80's and early 90's when people started to pay attention to them again.

To me, it's all about the look of the Dino that makes it special. Those kind of curves, thin pillars to support the roof and glass, chrome bumpers and accents have gone away with new standards and regulations. They ain't coming back so that makes it unique.

It's actually a shame that they cost as much as they do and sit in "collections". What a pity as it was never intended to be that at all. It was intended to be a starter Ferrari, and it served that role pretty well.

The little Dino is not a Ferrari. To me, it's better. It allowed people (like me) to get into Ferrari and Italian exotics at a low cost and without worrying too much about maintanence. People with 308's may have put down their noses at me, but I didn't care. I liked the car for what it was and put up with it's shortcomings because it was the best "Ferrari" I could afford.

I wouldn't be ordering a 458 today if it weren't for that Dino I bought all those years ago. So, it did its job well.

 

As for Ferraris current program to customize cars when owners order them, thats different as it will be documented that its how the car was originally built and delivered. Its not aftermarket stuff that would have to be reversed if the car increased in value and someone wanted to put it in its original condition.

Best regards,
Dino

 

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You're a wise man ;-)
Roughly the same figures for me.

Yves

 

You want to know whats hot on the collector market, Look at your average 50 to 60 year old guy and ask yourself what did he dream of in high school or Collage? Anserer 930 Porsche and 308 Ferrari. Our Day is Comming. It would take over 70K to make me think about parting with my 308.

Larry Fletcher
www.cisflowtech.com

 

That market is already here. Just look at how owns these things on Fchat --- people who grew up with Magnum. The 308 is already 35 years old. You may have another 10 years of that group before the magic of that period is worn off.

The real question is will the KIDS of those who currently own 308's find them desirable. I think the jury is out.

I just have a tough time thinking any car by any maker that is mass produced with black rubber bumpers will ever be considered "classic". Interesting... yes. Classic... not so much.

 

As opposed to mass produced cars with lots of chrome and fins that were considered gauche just a few years later? Now there are more '57 Chevy Bel Airs at the auctions than any other single model. Heck, the '59 Caddy was considered absolutely vulgar when new, yet those are coveted classics.

Almost EVERY car that is popular when new becomes a classic later on -- because as I've said before people get nostalgic about the things they saw when young. You can't be nostalgic about a car you never saw.

308s were dream cars...consequently they will be considered coveted classics -- plastic bumpers and all. And if that hurts the senses, just wait until people start bidding up 5.0 Mustang GTs, DeLoreans, Buick Grand Nationals (and obviously GNXs) and other poorly-made cars from the Reagan era.

 

If a 308 ever gets the same "star" treatment by speculators that the Dino did and reach prices between 150 and 200 K, then the Dino will be close to a million.

Anyone care to think that's going to happen?

How about... never.

Unless the market is totally out of wack by speculators, enthusiasts will never pay that much for these cars and hold prices back. Actually, that's a good thing because the cars are more valuable running on the road then they are in some guy's garage waiting to be transported to the next auction.

The Dino was the "end of an era". The 308 was not. It begat the Mondial, the 328 and all of the 3 series relates back to it. The Dino died out. It's replacement (the GT4) was never loved the way the original was. That will always make the Dino unique from the 3 series cars, no matter how much people like them.

 

I don't' think there is causation between one model's price to the other. These are independent events. Values rise and fall independent of model lineup, brand, etc.

I realize there were only about 500 Maserati Bora's produced, but they have the rubber bumper and don't seem to be starving for design acceptance. 20k some odd Porsche 930s with rubber bumpers, another 50k 911s with either wrapped rubber bumpers or those offensive rubber US crash bumpers that protruded like a bad zit from the rest of the bumper, and these cars hold value quite well.

All I'm saying is, we're not the ones that will make the value decision. There are many factors why values go up and down, we just don't know. But at 308s go, they have a much more going for them than 99% of the cars out there.

+308

 

I think Dino's and 308's are two seperate things in terms of long term values.

I think the strongest arguement that 308's have that I haven't seen voiced is "what else" falls into the same gotta have it idea from the mid 70's to the late 80's? Short of the European sports category, there isn't much. The Corvette's weren't great (no offense), the bulk of American stuff sucks and the Japanese Ricer cars hadn't begun to hit.

I can only think of the Family Truckster fro the Vacation movie, and it went head to head with a 308.

In all seriousness, I think the # of 308's is more than any prior Ferrari, but in the late 60's to early 70's, there were a lot more types of cars that one could choose to lust after.

 

I generally agree. Most 308s are purchased as used performance cars for driving, even modding; not preservation. As long as this is the prevalent view within the community, the market will see the 308 the same way. While the 308 community tends to look down their nose at "garage queens" , that is the collector car world and that difference in perception will keep the 308 in the special interest class.

When I was shopping for my 308 earlier in the year, on any given day I could find ten or more pretty good cars on the market within a couple hours drive, and easily several dozen if I wanted to shop nationally. That's not exactly the profile of a collector model that's primed to double or triple in value any time soon.

One poster analogized the 308 to Ford Model A's; good comparison since most Model A restorers put far more $$ into their cars than their market value too.

 

I guess what I've been trying to say is this:

If you just want a 308 and don't care about the other cars available that really don't cost much difference but have greater performance, then it's probably reached it's market potential. Most owners who own them now are in that category. Most owners would not be willing to pay 100 grand more for that privilage of owning a 308 -- there are a lot of great choices out there for $150 grand to choose from. How many owners to you know out there that are just keeping them in their garages just waiting for prices to double? Not many.

Right now, the market is being driven by enthusiasts. If it weren't for them (us really), the car would just be another 30 year old car.

However, a "collector" or "speculator" may see that beyond just the enthusiast level of interest, the car has potential to increase in value. If that is the case, you add into the market those people who really could care very little about driving the car and are more interested in it's collectibility and potential value.

Or, you could get some kind of event like a 308 being featured again promentantly in a movie or iconic role to re-stir public interest. Anything is possible.

If that happens, then you get a shot of adrenalin into the market as new forces are at play than they are today.

Could it be possible? Yes. Is it likely -- well most "classic" cars pretty much increase in value after they are 20 to 30 years old and then stabilize. The 308 is already 35 years old and really hasn't done much in changing its value in some time. It seems unlikely to catch fire with collectors as long as there are so many good examples out there to choose from.

As long as there are a lot of good examples running around and the level of enthusiasm remains the same, it's unlikely a major price increase is coming anytime soon.

If the 308 has any potential problems in value, it's the risk that it actually FALLS in the enthusiasm level -- that fewer people enter the market who want them.

Silly you say?

Sorry guys but the number of us who remember these things for what they were is diminishing and the people replacing them want more performance like the 355 or TR. You have to admit, if you're going to buy a Ferrari, you have more to choose from at very similar prices than just the 308.

The 308/328 is a really fine car. It's probably the best car they made in the 80's. And yes, it's iconic for the period. But, it's old, slow, and the costs to keep them up keeps rising. How many new people entering the market will want to keep that level of enthusiasm up?

The day you try to sell your 308 and the guy comes over and says "Well, for about the same money I can get a 355 or 360" is the day that you know the iconic status of the 308 is waining. The only reason to buy a 308 is --- to buy a 308.