Why buy a vintage Ferrari?

this is a great thread!

I would add that you should not be afraid to work on your car. If you do not work on cars at a basic level, then you will probalby find more frustration than joy in your ownership. The beauty of these old cars is that you DON'T need a diagnostic computer to reset the CPU, blah, blah, blah.

This may seem bizarre, but I actually am a little excited when something breaks (something less than an exploding engine) - it's an opportunity to get under the Beast's skin and she how she ticks. Just this past Friday, I started getting a wicked pull to the right coming off the brakes. Sure enough, I had a partially frozen caliper - front calipers and hoses are off, pistons and seals coming from Geoff Ohland by Wednesday, and will be on the road w/ 3 friends in the car for a trip to Reading PA for the Concours on Sunday morning.

I agree with the post re: starting the car is an event. I always love giving a new person a ride - watching their faces as I go through the anachronistic 7-step starting process . . . And I can honestly say that I have NEVER pumped gas into the car without a stranger coming up and ask about/slobber on the car.

And the driving experience? forget about it. Once the temps are off the bottom peg, there is absolutely nothing like the sound of ripping up the revs past 5000 to the next shift. The car is so feminine and masculine at the same time - it is absolutely beautiful to look at, but an undeniable brute when revved at a stoplight.

 

A vintage Ferrari sorts was a blend of two personal desires...a Ferrari and an older car that I could learn and work on.

I was hooked on cars long before Ferraris. However, I read the R&T review of the 275 GTS*4 NART Spyder when the issue was released (why, yes I am an old fart, why do you ask?). While I had read about Ferraris before, the statement from that article still resonates with me... "the most satisfying sports car in the world". While I'll never own a NART Spyder, I knew then that I would own a Ferrari some day. While the newer cars are better in most dimensions (comfort, performance, reliability), you can't work on them without significant training and even then, the only option is usually replacement of this module or that. On the C4, I can tinker with carbs, change the ignition system, replace odds and ends that have worn out. Keeps me off the streets...sometimes literally! Gradually, I can even progress to more complex maintenance, e.g. valve adjustment.

Another option that meets my interests would be a newer Ferrari and an old Mustang, E-body Mopar, BMW 3CS, etc. And I would seriously consider this, too.

 

Erik,
What color was that 275 gtb/4 your fil had?

 

What makes these cars so great is very abstract. I hate to sound like swooning ******, but lets face it, its the Spirit of the Prancing Horse.

 

I've driven modern ferraris and I loved them-a black 355 spider would be great. But there is something really great about holding that big wooden wheel and hearing the roar of a big V12 rocket you down the road. Since you really can't use a modern ferrari to its full potential off the track without going to jail (at least in the police state of maryland), a vintage one gives visceral thrills at a slightly slower speed.

The other important issue is most of the 60s and 70s ferraris are done with their depreciation. I can't afford to buy a 360 and lose 40K driving it around for a year.

 

All well said! My 328 (not vintage) is great because you can still stress the car and not wind up in jail. I drove a 360 thought it was way too easy to drive- not much of a challenge. I love to imagine the stories these old car could tell you. I love patina. Over-restoration drives me nuts. I have never driven or been in a vintage Ferrari, but I know I'll love it. I have a deposit on a series 2 330 GT 2+2 so I'll find out soon!!!

 

My FIL's Alloy 275GTB/4 was red with black interior. He bought it from Chinetti in about 1969 and sold it in the mid 80's.

 

I don't have a lot to add to this great thread, but I thought I'd address the three questions Dr. Tax asked. (They come from different posts in this thread, but for simplicity's sake I combined them here.)

Dr. Tax, what Ferrari are you considering? Or, what Ferraris of the period are you familiar with? What’s you point of reference?

A T-spec 911 is a great car. An S is even better. But if you felt overwhelmed by its visceral essence, you may actually overdose on a similar Ferrari. That—along with lower production numbers—is why a single Ferrari is worth a handful of similar Porsches.

There’s nothing vague—and nothing that’s not crisp—about vintage Ferrari steering. My 330 GT has power steering, and I’ve described it before as a revelation. I think that all modern steering should be so good. You can place any tire exactly where you want it, and there’s no need for excessive steering wheel shuffling. It’s one of a number of things that make the Ferrari so much better than any of its contemporaries.

Finally, I don’t think too much of the concours crowd, which is why I like your forum signature so much!

--Matt

 

No, I've got to agree with Matt - the driving and cornering is precise, once you find the limits of the car. My recent drive was a learning experience in this regard. I overcooked a couple of turns, but had a great time by the end of the day using the throttle to drift the car through the curves. The car feels very planted as long as you don't over-drive the capabilities of the tires. The vintage tires certainly play a role, and the rubber needs to be relatively fresh. My XWX's are 4 years old and seem fine. Another aspect of the driving experience for me is that the car seems to "shrink" as you go faster. Low speed driving makes the car seem larger than it is, but as speed increases the car feels tossable and light on its feet.

Keep it coming, this is a great thread!

Chuck

 

if driving is the single criteria than do NOT swap the maranello for a vintage version, indepndent rear suspension, or not. It would not be nearly as telepathic, precise, consistent, or capable. When you drive one, the years of progress become obvious.
It is just some of us have anachronistic tendencies and yearnings.
The solution?
A 550/575 ---AND---- a Daytona (or GTC-Phil Hill's favorite).

I am hoping to replace my Alfa Spider with a 348 Spider/coupe in order to keep the 250 GTE better company. I wander how much attic crap I would have to pawn to the ebay clowns to achieve this goal...?

thx
luke

 

Dale: I use " it's cheaper than drugs" which seems to fly. I used to use "cheaper than horse" but she wanted to try horses so I dropped that one.They eay whether you use them or not.

 

Not to pry, but we need to understand your better half a little to craft an appropriate strategy here.

If you gave her $100k to spend on her idea of a "toy", what would it be?

Example: if she wants to remodel, the response is "we can eat in a Ferrari, but we can't drive a new kitchen"

 

I use:
"cheaper than crack or......a mistress" argument. Of course, she knows that I am not yet at a level of income to be able to afford a mistress, but I do get addicted to things easily.
There is always the "ask for forgiveness" instead of "ask for permission" route, but this might lead to a very expensive car in the end (and her lawyers would own it).

In the long run, I just buy cheap and seek out 2+2s, taking the pleasure in doing some sorting myself. With the 4 seaters, you get 90 percent of the fun and cachet, but 30 percent of the cost (don't quote me on that). The 308GT4 and the 250 GTE provided plenty of grins, as did an E-type 2+2, a Mustang Fastback GT, Porsche 911 C4, etc., etc.

BTW, CEO is not the proper term, it is CFO, Chief Family Officer. Or, "she who must be obeyed" in the vernacular.

 

OK, then it's "look, we buy this vintage Ferrari (since you can't stick a new Ferrari in the garage, eh) plus the shotgun and stick it in the garage forever." THEN, tell her "well, if it was a simple stash of cash, we would know it's OK, but you can't tell that with a car" Start it up...just maybe she'll get hooked?!

 

Dale,

Just give it up. You must be the wrong person for the Vintage route, otherwise you would have gotten one already (but you still get to drive my car). I suggest you ADD an Elise to your stable. Much cheaper as a combination in the long run, and you might just get out of the combo what you "need" (including a removable roof AND an airco).

Also, adding the Lotus might do less damage on the home front.

 

In my opinion, it's not worth it for the transaxle alone.

The rear suspension on the 330 GT 2+2 is an odd solution that uses both leaf springs and coilovers to locate the live rear axle. It's traditional Ferrari, and it works really, really well.

At the limit, you're going to know that you're driving a live axle car. Then again, that live axle gives you a much more gradual limit, which lets you enjoy exploring that limit a bit more often.

Personally, I chose a 330 2+2+ Series II because I thought it was an outstanding value. It's also very easy to resell if you think you've made a mistake. And it's one of the few Ferraris that are appreciating at a significant rate, according to the Ferrari Market letter.

It also makes a great stepping stone to whatever your older, more expensive dreamcar Ferrari is: a Daytona perhaps, or a 275 GTB/4? For me, it's a Pininfarina Cabriolet II.

Good luck in your search, DrTax!

--Matt

 

I concur relative to performance: a 330 GT or GTC is not a slug. At the local track my 330 GT was ignored by a 355 driver (one of the instructors) until they were both on the track together. When we came off, he came by and said with some surprise "You were almost keeping up with me!" Would have come closer with performance tires and antilock brakes.
(In the interest of full disclosure it was not me driving, but a friend who has a SCCA license.).
But look under a Classic 60s Ferrari. The basic setup looks a lot like the factory racers of the era, which handled well enough to win a few races. I am sure the modern feel is different now, but when pushed, the vintage Ferrari handles pretty well. And a good running 330 V-12 speaks for itself!

Cheers
Warren



gi

 

Don't look now dude, but your car is 47 years old!

 

I have always liked these types of threads and follow them. But, aside from the charm and mystique that only the older car can offer, the older car actually breaks down, so you get to use your head and your Snap-ons to fix it. Then, if you cannot fix it, you get to talk to people, write to peole and all that. Who cares about going fast in comfort on the freeway? My new Subaru can offer me that.

john

 

Well said.

An old Ferrari is nice because it gives a vintage car experience that can still easily keep up with modern traffic.

(And I like how Warren resurrected a ten-year-old thread!)

Matt

 

Your phrase "easily keep up with modern traffic." is the most practical way of comparing the performance of modern vs. vintage cars, if we are talking about actually putting them on the road. I can't think of anyplace I drive here in the east where a 150 mph vs a 200 mph top speed has any meaning. Probably very few tracks have a long enough straight to get near maximum speed. And with traffic and speed limits, even acceleration differences are of limited use. There are a lot of other reasons to prefer modern cars.
The last car I drove for any distance near top speed was around the late 1940's - early 1950's when there were open roads with no speed limit, and 100 mph was really fast. (imagine doing that on cotton cord bias ply tires)

BTW Matt - what thread did I resurrect?

Cheers
Warren