Horner reveals why Red Bull success 'P***** OFF' manufacturers in F1 (gptoday.com) Christian Horner has admitted that Red Bull have 'p***** off' some major manufacturers in F1 due to their success over the last decade. The Milton Keynes-based outfit are the reigning constructors' champions and have blown the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren out of the water, despite not being a road car manufacturer themselves. Red Bull took over the team from Jaguar in 2005, another famous car manufacturer, and have taken them to a whole new level. Horner enjoys sticking it to the mainstream car manufacturers considering Red Bull are just 'a bunch of people from a fizzy drinks can'. Anything is possible “I think it pisses them off, to be honest,” Horner said to the Financial Times. “If you are an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) and you’re being beaten up by a bunch of people from a fizzy drinks can. “Sometimes it sits a little uncomfortably but it just shows that if you get the right people together, the right tools, the right belief. Anything is possible. “We’ve done it on the chassis side so we thought why not do it on the engine side as well.”
Maybe they dislike Red Bull because Horner is a ****, but if thinking that makes him happy... For me it´s the old Stewart/Jaguar/whatever under a different name. Back then it was funded by Ford and now by a beverage company: money is money, it doesn´t make a big difference where it comes from.
Ah, no, again that BS of garagists!! By that standard, Mercedes could be a garagist too: they bought an existing chassis manufacturer and an independent engine supplier and rebranded them. Not a huge difference with what Red Bull does.
The slur "garagist" was started by Enzo Ferrari. It doesn't fit Mercedes, taking over another car manufacturer facilities (Honda), with huge resources to back up the venture. Mercedes was successful where Honda, Toyota and BMW failed. Red Bull was Sauber sponsor until a disagreement about driver. So Mateschitz decided to go alone and bought an ailing team, then another ... They never had the industrial back-up car manufacturers have.
Horner (with whom I was acquainted during his days as a bog-slow F3 pilot) is doing a lot of pretending here. The whole garagiste schtick is an absolute sham, as is the 'RBPT not Honda' claim. Now that they're cycling back to their roots with Ford, Red Bull's chief muppet will need to devote a significant amount of energy to avoid falling into the political cesspit that is every Ford F1 programme.
When Mercedes bought Brawn, they got an skeleton crew because Brawn had to strip the team to the minimum to survive the 2009 season. Back then there was talk about a budget cap and Brawn convinced Mercedes that they didn´t need to make a huge investment to win. Things didn´t happen that way and in the end they had to spend like crazy, but it could be said that they started with a "garagist". Furthermore, I don´t know exactly how much engine work is done at the Mercedes HQ at Germany. Probably not a lot, so it´s like Mercedes is subcontracting the work, again like a garagist, Cosworth and Ford. In the end it´s not so much about "industrial back-up" as "money back-up". With deep pockets you can someone to get it done.
Are redbull not a OEM them selfs? i dont remember Neway running to other teaams buying pieces of equipment, nor do none OEM teams have an engine manufacture desiging its engines, they buy them. also its good to note if we had no budget cap, Merc would still have all the staff that they have had to let go because of said cap. When you completely design and build your own car, and its Engine, you are an OEM. If RB was Has, he might have a point, but they are not.
I take it you don't like what Christian Horner is saying. Whatever ... I think there is a bit of truth in what he said: Red Bull, the new kid on the block , bla, bla, bla ... And old teams left for dead behind.
I guess that Red Bull is a modern equivalent to the constructors that Enzo Ferrari crudely referred to as "garagisti".
Is RedBull currently the only full works F1 team that isn't associated with production cars?....like in the whole history of F1?
It depends.... Red Bull was bought by Ford from Stewart Racing, and Ford rebranded it Jaguar, since they owned Jaguar... so at one time they were associated with 'road cars'.
One noticeable one was BRM, Vanwall was another, and McLaren was a racing team long before they started producing road cars.
Cooper was only marginally associated with car production (they licenced their name to BMC, and now BMW for the Mini), also Brabham, there was a Vauxhall limited series badged as Viva Brabham that received some tuning at some point. Those 2 were legit "garagists".
If you call FULL WORKS TEAMs only those who create and manufacture everything, at the moment, only Ferrari, Mercedes, and Alpine satisfy that criteria (up to a point). Red Bull is half-way at the moment, still using Honda IP, I guess. The chassis originator is recognised as a CONSTRUCTOR. I think that's what irritated Enzo Ferrari. That's the definition the FIA adopted when it created the World Constructors Championship in 1958.
Red Bull will sell the RB17 in the coming years. A track car only. 5 millions pounds.. Difficult to justify a true automotive maker status with 50 units.. Nevertheless kudos to Horner for building a such efficient team from scratch. Again Ferrari and Mercedes have to do their homework better..
True. I am sure some of the wealthy customers will transform it for road use. But most will be garage queens for sure.
Cooper, Lotus and later Brabham were the first teams that did NOT build their own engines or transmissions, which is why Enzo disliked them. By the '70s most teams were doing that, and after BRM folded, Ferrari was the only team building their own engines and trannies until Renault came along. The 2000s seemed to mark a renewal of teams doing everything, with the likes of Jaguar (then owned by Ford), Honda and Toyota. Now we've sort of gone back the other way, with a small number of engine makers supplying all the teams.
