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Why did I wait so long to lower my 458?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Nsd991, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    64
    Monaco MC
    Thanks I understand.
    8hrs is a lot, they must have taken the shocks off, I guess...
    But maybe still it can be done without.
    Anybody knows?
     
  2. Natkingcolebasket69

    Rossa Subscribed

    Actually it’s about right; charges the same on my FF with novitec springs. It’s a rather annoying job


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  3. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    64
    Monaco MC
    Thanks for your reply.
    OK I opened a specific post asking for the same thing.
     
  4. Snaponjackson

    Snaponjackson Karting
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    Sep 19, 2018
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    Chris Jackson
    I did the same mods to my 488 spider I lowered it on stock springs and put in the wheel spacers. Man does it make a big difference in the looks! I did the job myself and since you're not changing the coil springs you don't even have to remove them from the car. If you are having someone do the work for you, they should only charge you for about 2 to 3 hours at the most. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

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  5. Snaponjackson

    Snaponjackson Karting
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    Sep 19, 2018
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    By the way it ended up being lowered about 3/4 of an inch in the front and 3/4 in the rear (shown in the pictures). Since the pictures I lower the rear another half an inch.

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  6. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    64
    Monaco MC
    Dear Snaponjackson,
    thanks for your reply.
    Yes: this is what I thought: no need to take the shocks off, and 2hrs job for a shop. Maybe 4hrs for me, but I think a shop may (may) need 8hrs just in case the springs are changed, so shocks have to come off; then maybe 2hrs per wheel make sense.
    Thanks
     
  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula Junior

    May 29, 2019
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    A.B
    Be careful you don't go too far. I was told at one point, that a car without lifter should not be lowered more than 25 mm front and 25 mm rear. Something about shock travel range. 1.25 inches in the rear is 32 mm. If the car has a lifter, I believe max lowering over stock is 10 or 15 mm.
     
  8. Snaponjackson

    Snaponjackson Karting
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    Sep 19, 2018
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    My 488 has a lifter and I maxed it out and ran the adjusters all the way to the lifter cylinder which is about three quarters of an inch or 20 mm have had no issues.

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  9. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    64
    Monaco MC
    Am I wrong, or the shocks with the lifter has a sort of plastic collar covering part of the body? Is it covering the ring nut and the perch?
     
  10. Snaponjackson

    Snaponjackson Karting
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    My 488 did not

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  11. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
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    Monaco MC
    OK I hope the same is with my 458, I'll check it as soon as I'll be back home from a business trip.
     
  12. white out

    white out Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2010
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    Nick
    I've heard conflicting opinions on removing the coilover bodies to adjust them. Personally, I couldn't adjust a friend's 458 lower spring perch while the coilover bodies were on the car and I had never seen that before, including OEM cars.

    I just met with the owners of Novitec and the processes and procedures they go through for parts development is near OEM spec. Personally, if the factory springs couldnt' get the car where I wanted it, Novitec would be the only option in my book.
     
  13. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #38 RayJohns, Nov 7, 2019 at 7:29 PM
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 7:36 PM
    People who say you can adjust them, while still on the car, probably have never actually done the job themselves. It's far better to remove them. Even jacking up the car and taking the weight off the wheels doesn't fully decompress the springs 100%. This means you are still turning both the locking collar and main seat under some residual load - and that's a great recipe for galling aluminum threads if you aren't careful. Also, space it very limited when everything is on the car and that makes it very difficult to work and also to take accurate measurements as far as how far your are lowering the spring perch.

    With that said, keep in mind that you are working with an aluminum frame structure, so you need to take care when bolting things back together. Some of the mounting bolts thread into aluminum holes as I recall. It's very important to use a light touch when threading bolts back in and/or make sure whoever is doing your work is skilled at what they are doing.

    If you do attempt it on the car, you might want to invest in the Hill Engineering wrenches and also spray some lubricant in to help protect the threads.

    Ray
     
  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula Junior

    May 29, 2019
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    Not so. You are making assumptions. What some of us suggest, is using spring compressors while the assembly is still on the car. This removes all tension and load. Not only have I personally done this on more coilover setups than I care to remember, including the 458, I know from first hand observations that some technicians at F car dealers do it like that as well. On nrand new cars that are being prepped for delivery, I have also witnessed it done without spring compressors. Often these cars are delivered from the factory with both incorrect ride height and allignment. I have never seen a new Ferrari have its shocks removed for the pre delivery rideheight and allignment adjustment.

    My main thing is to always spray the threads and jam nuts with liquid wrench and let it sit for a bit. Cleaning and lubricating threads should always be done prior to adjusting coilovers. That's where I've seen most go wrong

    There are several ways to skin a cat you know.
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I've done plenty of cars also. And I did attempt to use spring compressors on the 458 while it's on the car and found that approach to be problematic. I'm not doubting that you have done it this way or that it can be done via that method. However, based on my own personal experience lowering the 458, I don't advise doing it like that. Removing the assembly and making the adjustments on a work bench is a better approach in my view.

    I think lubricating the threads, no matter what method one selects, is very important for sure.

    Ray
     
  16. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I'm attaching a few photos I snapped while doing the job on my 458.

    I'm also attaching some technical information from the service manual, in case anyone needs it as a reference in the future (see the attached PDF file).

    The photos below illustrate basically how the job is handled when the strut assembly is off the car and when you are working on a bench. Initially, I did attempt to do this job while the struts were still on the car, but I quickly ran into a number of issues which caused problems. Perhaps with more compact spring compressors, it might be possible to get away with doing it on the car. For me, I found the best method involved removing the entire assembly. This also allows for very accurate measuring, without trying to wedge delicate tools around other parts of the wheels or suspension area.

    As mentioned, there are many ways to skin a cat, but my vote goes to removing the strut and just working comfortably on a work bench.

    The final photos shows the car lower 15mm in the front and stock height in the rear.

    The photos also show that - even with the collars wound down 15mm - there is still plenty of threads left. However, don't forget that using this method is reducing some suspension travel also. I personally wouldn't go much more than about 20mm on the stock setup.

    Ray

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    Attached Files:

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  17. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    64
    Monaco MC
    Very interesting thread...
    A question for those who did the job themselves: what is holding the threaded collar onto the shock body, and prevents it from turning? Is it free to turn, once the spring load is fully released?
    I see RayJohns is holding it with a 3rd key: is it just a redundant measure or would it turn?
    My guess was that it was someway locked in place (e.g. interference), but I never had a shock in my hands...
     
  18. RayJohns

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    It's free to turn, correct. The 3rd spanner is to prevent that while working. If you slide the aluminum collar part up, there is a large round clip that snaps into a machined grove, and this supports the threaded base.

    Ray
     
  19. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
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    Thanks RayJohns, that's clear now.
     
  20. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    You're welcome. Here is a photo I just found on ebay. You can sort of see what I mean here w/ the arrows. So the clip supports everything, but things can still spin on top of the clip if you're not careful.

    Ray

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  21. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
    64
    Monaco MC
    Yes, that's clear.
    Looks like they did everything they could to make thinks complicated... a locking pin or a spline would have helped a lot here.
     
  22. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I think the fact that it can spin actually prevents the spring assembly from loading up and binding during use. It's hard to say for sure, but that would be my guess why it's setup like that.

    Ray
     
  23. RayJohns

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    I have to add that I was a little shocked when the entire lower aluminum assembly spun while attempting to tighten things down the first time. This also is part of why doing it on the car isn't a great idea. If you aren't careful, you can dig that clip into the aluminum while wrenching things around in there.

    Ray
     
  24. Corradosv

    Corradosv Karting

    Oct 17, 2016
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    Monaco MC
    You made an interesting point, Ray, but I am not sure this is the reason why. Mainly because most shocks (at least all the ones I've seen before) don't have such a provision, and I don't believe it would actually turn under load, due to frictions; I mean, if that was the intention, then I think a proper axial roller bearing would be needed. One thing for sure is that the commonplace design is a threaded body and no collar.
    Having said that I also have to say it is very hard to me to explain: my best guess is that this is sadly the cheapest way to turn an existing non-adjustable shock into an adjustable one: a groove, a ring, and a collar; preventing the collar from turning was going to make things more complicated, so expensive in turn. So, probably, someone is saving money this way, by using the same non-threaded body for adjustable and non-adjustable applications.
    Just my guess, of course.
    If you want to be more "generous" you can instead think this is a "nobler" racing solution that is particularly suitable for applications where preload adjustment is frequent, as it allows just the collar to be replaced when the thread is damaged/locked, but honestly I don't think so, because this is a weight-adding design, plus, as we all know, the collar is actually not available as a separate part!
     
  25. RayJohns

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    Yeah, I think you're right: it's probably more a function of lower manufacturing costs. And true, if it were anything to do with load and/or binding reduction, then some sort of radial bearing would probably be used in there also.

    Ray
     

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