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Why do Saubers suck?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Auraraptor, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
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    ?

    I wish they would do better.
     
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  3. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
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    Neil
    ?
    Money,
    Tallent in the garage,
    Tallent in the drivers,
    A doom cloud does seem to follow them.
     
  4. sduke

    sduke Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2003
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    Steven D
    I too am confused by their lack of success. They have last years Ferrari. I am having a hard time believing that last years Ferrari is not at least better than the Jag, the Toyota, or the current McLaren. Shouldn't they be at least close to the points every race? Massa has got to be at least as good as Pannis. They certainly shouldn't be fighting Minardis and Jordans for points.

    Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.
     
  5. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
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    Rob Guess
    While everyone thinks that they are running last years Ferrari 2003-GA they in fact are not. They infact have the F2004 engine and transmission package, but that is all.

    Perhaps the largest issue thay are having is the switch from a twin keel suspension back to a single keel. They are having to learn the suspension geometry tricks of a single keel. Also there new wind tunnel perhaps the most state of the art on F1 opened up to late for it to help in the design of the 04 car. One thing i understand is that they can place a full size car inside of the tunnel and test it out. Even though most of the tests will only use 60% models.

    Sauber is still trying to learn the F1 game. Look at last year at the end of the season. Sauber started to come alive. i think perhaps the worse move that they did was bring in 2 new drivers now the teams have to get use to working with the drivers ad understanding what the driver wants the car to do. there learning curve is very steep right now.
     
  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    Strike "perhaps". Their wind tunnel is the best currently. Of all of them. Why? Because it is the most modern and these things are like computers, you build one next year and it is even better. The Sauber tunnel can run 100% race car or two 60% models, which allows for modelling drafting effects. Also it can rotate 15% to either side allowing for study of side winds.

    Anyway, they knew that their tunnel won't help them for the creation of this year's car and kept that one very basic. The press calls it the "Lego" car as it allows components to be removed and added at will as they progress through this year. They will likely come up with new components as a result of the wind tunnel and add them later in the season.

    But generally nobody expected much from them this year, but next year's car should be better.

    BTW: You have to give huge credit to Peter Sauber for putting together his own F1 team in a country, that a) has a ban on motorsport and b) no own car industry and c) has a small economy. So finding sponsors and support in such a non F1 world is quite amazing. England, Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the USA have their own motorsport world, racing schools for drivers, car industry and huge economies. Switzerland doesn't, yet Sauber was able to come up with his own F1 team. Kinda reminds me of the Jamaican bob sled team.

    PS: If things pan out, I might get a tour of the Sauber factory this summer. Will report about it here.
     
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  8. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
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    Andreas,

    The reason i used the term "perhaps" is the fact that in wind tunnels you need highly trained professionals operating it. also if the tunnel is not properly calebrated the results can be meaningless. Jag had this problem a couple of years back when they were using 2 tunnels 1 in England and the Swift tunnel in Ca. The results they were getting was incorrect due to the fact that they did not check the calibration of the Swift tunnel and while they were thinking that the results were going in the right direction, it was indeed going the wrong way.

    Also from what i understand the Sauber tunnel was down for 2 weeks + due to a fire in one of the transformers theat drive the fan motor.

    Rob

    BTW: who did you rent that huge Nikon Lens from last year for Indy? I am thinking of renting one for this years race to use with a new N75 i picked up yesterday ;)
     
  9. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Really? why?
     
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    After the Le Mans tragedy in the fifties the Swiss government banned all motor racing in Switzerland. Exceptions are only time trials where drivers can't get into each others way.

    Currently there is a movement changing that law, but frankly I don't believe that will ever happen.


    Rob, they did spend a good amount of time calibrating the wind tunnel. Most of the engineers in the critical places at Sauber are from the British racing industry.

    I'll send you a message about the lens. I don't want to tell in public as otherwise somebody else snatches that lens up (they only have one).
     
  11. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Also, why the keel switch? Wouldnt it been better to refine the one they had, even if the long term potential is not as good, which developing the single in private ie.. not racing situations?
     
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  13. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
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    Omar,

    I think the reason that Sauber becided on switching back is the fact that it allows for a much more stiffer chassis. Also the suspension geometry realing with the roll centers are better understood. The only real advantage to a twin keel design is the fact that a car can have better aerodynamic flow to the underside.

    Also with Sauber alsost being a "B" team of Ferrari they can get much better input on suspension geomety and track setup input from Bridgestone where as With a twin keel they may have been left more out in the open.

    If we take a look at the teams that are using the twin keel is McLaren and Williams. Both teams are having difficulties keeping the pace In fact i think Jordan went back to a Single keel this season.

    Rob
     
  14. matkat

    matkat Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2003
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    Dave McGuire
    interesting thread,last year a company I worked for was liasing with Sauber about a new computer system and a visit was organised to Sauber HQ,Peter Sauber was asked this question and along with a hypothetical budget the same as Ferrari,on being asked what he would do with this large cash injection he had no hesitation in saying he would go out and hire the best engineers money could buy,so therefore I think he knows the reason why so little success,nothing to do with wind tunnels or drivers.
     

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