Why do the Ghiblis worth 4 times less than Daytona, Iso Grifo, and Bizzarini ?

DWR46, well said, I didn't mention anything about the car being bad (compared to that era of course), the engines did indeed make them into beasts on the road. My disagreement is at the price tag...

 

Pedigree? well if you want to compare lets take the the Iso Bizzarrini chassis and compare it to the Maserati.

The Iso and Bizzarrini both had state of the art chassis deigns done by Giotto Bizzarrini. Giotto was in charge of the racing GT chassis at Ferrari, he fixed the racing 250 chassis's and designed the Ferrari GTO, left Ferrari and designed the Lamborghini V12, worked with Iso Rivolta and designed what was the best chassis on a production road car at the time using a stressed box design. Bizzarrini used these components to build the A3C that raced at leMans winning it's class it's first time out.

Pedigree

Design one of the worlds most sot after race winning cars in the world the Ferrari GTO, check

Design one of the most Iconic engines in the world the Lamborghini V12, check

Design one of the best road chassis's Iso Rivolta/ Bizzarrini, check

Maserati used a solid rear end with leaf springs strapped to a ladder frame, that was their offering for their top of the line car.

The Iso chassis is brilliant, even today it works like a champ.

Comparing the looks of a Ghibli to a Grifo is a personal choice, they are both beautiful designs and IMO neither has a bad angle.

 

Well, it is all a mater of how you want to see things...

He was working for Alfa Romeo initially

He only worked for Ferrari for 5 years!!! Not exactly "pedigree material"

He was fired by Ferrari!!!

He only made the Bizzarrini cars for 6 years and went bust... not a real success after all.


PS:
the leaf springs are indeed an old design, but the Ghibli drives superbly with it!

 

Drive a Ghibli and an Espada back to back. Ghibli has the much nicer torque curve hands down. The Espada has that fantastic V12 Lambo sound. If these cars are not PS they're both like trucks at slow speed and neither has great steering feel anyway - old cars.
But the ride and chassis of the Espada is far superior and it feels so much more refined going down the road. This is why when I was looking at Italian GT cars back in the mid 1980s I picked the Khamsin and & Bora as possibilities over the earlier Maserati GT cars. They really felt like old cars to me back then. Since then I have enjoyed drive a few nicely sorted ones on extended trips including a nice 4.7 Indy two summers ago driving down to Monterey from Sacramento.

 

staatsof, please let me know how you compare the Ghibli/Indy to your Bora's suspension?

 

In what way?

 

I've driven the above cars occasionally for fun, but never done serious miles to compare. Can you explain how the suspension is different (hard/soft/comfortable/noisy etc) compared with your Bora?

I've done lots of trips with my Merak (~1000-2000 miles each trip) so I know how it behaves over long distances.

For example, with the original 15" Campagnolo wheels and XWX tires the car drives like a stupid balloon, jumpy and adrift. While with the 16" BBS wheels and proper tires, the car drives as a contemporary F355 does. Sharp handling, steady and lots and lots of grip. The only issue is the suspension during hard turns, which "leans" too much.

 

About the same except that the Bora is a bit heavier and has a lot more torque to deal with coming out of turns. Yeah they both lean like hell on a track but surprisingly with DOT competition tires on the original rims it handled pretty well even with the lean. I was even able to drift the car though turns without the much anticipated insta-pirouette.
That was with Comp TA R1s circa 2003 235 front and 255 rear. I stopped driving it at the track after nearly slamming into a wall with my 84 Biturbo and got a job specific track car.

Once I was done picking up the car in Oklahoma City the XWXs were discarded. They were horrible but the eventual replacement XGTs were such a transformation. The Goodyear Gatorbacks were very nice as well.

It's independent suspension so that alone is a huge improvement over a live axle leaf spring configuration. Nothing wrong with the Bora's suspension except as already noted.
It's more GT than flat out high performance. Aerodynamics at high speed is a different matter. It like a lot of other cars from that era are seriously flawed when compared with today's cars. Keep at 120MPH and below and you won't notice anything significant. So in today's world it's a non issue for the most part.

I've done 1,100 miles and 17 hours in one shot, not intentionally, once and that WAS horrific for my very long legs. But 500 miles a day isn't a torture chamber. I'd much rather do it my 84 Biturbo though and have many times. That's because it's a far superior "real world" automobile just nowhere near as exotic. It's much quicker and almost as fast as my top end limited Bora (140) mph. The Bora will get there reasonably quickly because of the gearing. The Biturbo is a f'ing brick in the wind and takes forever to see that speed, only in Nevada.

 

Yes Alfa so did Enzo

5 years and look at what he accomplished, the trust that Enzo gave him to build a complete car separate from the factory and was allowed to pick any Ferrari employees to help.

He left and was later fired.

He also designed the Europa for Opel, the AMX/3 for AMX. BMW said this was one of the best chassis they had ever tested.

Yes the financiers stole the company funds and Autostar went bankrupt, but Maserati went bust too and had to be sold to "the French" disgraceful indeed. If that wasn't bad enough Maserati was then raped by DeTomaso.

It's not often that a single man is tied to so many accomplishments, he earned his pedigree.

October 23, 2012, on the occasion of the inauguration of the University of Florence new Design Campus in Calenzano, with a huge attendance, Professor Giotto Bizzarrini was given the Honoris Causa Degree in Industrial Design.
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Oh just a bunch of buffoons who wear silly hats ...

 

The look of Pedigree

 

Pretty much completely irrelevant with the pedigree or history of the cars and none of these things are an excuse of the price bubble.

 

staatsof, interesting, I've had pretty much similar experiences.

but what I don't quite understand, is your description of "17 hours in one shot", considering the interior/driving position is very looong and spacious, why would you have an issue with your legs?

I've found the driving position to be very comfortable because I can stretch my legs, something not possible in a normal car.

 

Grasshopper you have much to learn

 

Indeed, for I only know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.

 

That's not how I would describe the Bora's interior. While it's a lot better than some of it's contemporaries Boxer, Miura I still have to tuck my feet behind the pedal to stretch my legs on a long trip. The Merak has more room and I haven't driven one in a very long time so maybe the driver's seat allows for better leg room?

 

Next time I go a car meeting, I'll do some comparison. I do think that the body-type of the person also pays a role.

I can't imagine what NBA players do when buying a sports car... maybe they have some special arrangement when ordering the car? Maybe this exists today, but that probably didn't exist 30+ years ago.

 

Remember Wilt Chamberlain had a Ghibli.

 

10,000 woman can't be wrong ... must have worn his foreskin plum off ...

 

Spotted!
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That is Darren Frank's Grifo with my silver Mistral in the background. Darren is a walking encyclopedia on Grifos. Photo taken yesterday at the Hilton Head Concours. Great weather and nice event.

Ivan

 

OK Ivan I know you have that Grifo, what do you think?

 

I love it! Drives very nice and with 400hp under the hood it will glue you to your seat. Build quality seems to be very good. My car has mostly original interior which is holding up quite well. I will replace the painted mirrors and will be making grey carpeting to replace the worn black ones. The prior owner installed an electric power steering which is very nice. If I ever get a Daytona that is one thing I would definitely do to that car, also would be a great addition on a Bora or non-PS Ghibli.
Only thing I miss on the Grifo is the exhaust sound of an Italian engine. Great car for a 1000 mile rally.

Ivan
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Very Very Nice!!!

Mike

 

Pfffttt thats all? so much fuss for that?

Check this out and compare: