Why does "everyone" prefer the 458 over the 488?

That's the thing though, a 3.9l on twin parallel turbos is equivalent to a 2liter on a single turbo. This is mechanically identical.

Yeah sure, but turbo manufacturers, automobile manufacturers, etc. all of them will tell you the advances are in metallurgical and geometry, not in "using two turbos instead of one" especially when in multi bank engines using two turbos is usually easier to do than using a single for packaging (with or without cross bank charging). You can literally just look at a turbo from the 80s and one from post 2000s and see how much more complex the blade geometry is. Twin scroll turbos and VTG also plays a role but the latter is still relatively rare while the former is quite common.

BMW turbo sixes are probably the best example of a large displacement single turbo ICE. The N54 used twin parallel setup and was abandoned for a single twin-scroll setup in the N55 and all their turbo sixes since.

Porsche Boxster/Cayman uses a single turbo with a 2.5L flat 4 and the new GTS uses a single turbo as well (this is a bit of an unfair comparison given that's using electric hybrid/split turbo like that used in F1)

Does the 3.9l on two turbos work better than it would on a single turbo ? absolutely it does but it would be disingenuous to say that this is the reason why it's good. V8s lend themselves to using a single turbo on each bank, a flat plane crank v8 even more so. So Ferrari using twin turbos on the 488 isn't so much something that should be lauded as something that should be EXPECTED. That makes it NOT praiseworthy. The default should not be praised.

The "lore" behind twin-turbos all pretty much came about from small displacement engines using sequential turbos (small+big). \

V8s, V10s, V12s naturally lend themselves to using more than one turbo, it would be "strange" to see them using anything less than two.

4pots lend themselves to using a single turbo, it would be "strange" to see them using more than 1, which is why a twin-turbo 4 is "interesting"/"cool" because it's not obvious, it signifies the engineers/designers are placing a strong desire for both high end output AND response (generally a twin turbo 4 is going to be of the big + small variety)

6's are in a weird middle ground where it's conceivable to run either the twin parallel or big+small variety and for it to legitimately make sense, in a multi bank (v or flat) probably a twin parallel makes sense and a big+small wouldnt (for packaging) and for an inline 6, anything goes (although with modern turbos you can still get very good response with good top end without having to use a twin setup as every single BMW since the N54 has shown)

 

I suspect there are fewer DCT issues on the 458/488 cars because the California and California T are more apt to have higher mileage as they are GT cars and probably get driven more than weekend blasts in the midengine car. I'm not sure of the sales numbers but I would guess they sold more California than 458s/488s overall.

Keep in mind that the sensor issue (early wiring harness in particular) is not the inherent flaw that lurks in all the Ferraris with that gearbox. Although a sensor can go bad for other reasons, which is why it makes sense to replace them all whenever the gearbox is opened.

Informative video from Micah at the Hollywood Mechanic (and he has a much more in depth one as well on his channel) ...

Irregardless, the gearbox issue is just as apt to strike any Ferrari from that era so it's not a consideration between the two unless it's a very early 458 before they changed the clips on the internal wiring.

 

That leak seems to be a different issue to the dreaded (losing an entire 'bank' of gears) but yeah, it wouldn't be a ferrari if it didn't have a hidden time bomb "somewhere" right ?

 

You know the reason, blah blah, last NA is not trivial.

I do grab the key more often for the Pista than the Speciale largely due to speed/torque. Not so much the case on the 296 but I think that is because the seat just doesn’t treat my back so well.

Speciale A, Pista Pilota, Speciale, Pista spider, Pista are the top five collectibles from 458/488 era. F8 only true collectible is SP48 Unica.

 

This invites the question -- what percentage of the marketplace is shopping for a "collectable" vs shopping for a "car"?

 

At the right price, everyone.

 

Looks like a Ferrari on top and a Nissan on bottom

 

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I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?

 

It’s all good.
Exiting this thread.

 

Me too. Talk about beating a dead horse (of the turbo persuasion)

 

I’ve owned several 458s and would never go back. The styling hasn’t aged well, and it’s slow. Get the 488—it looks much sharper and is faster, even though some people claim the opposite, which is hilarious.

 

Wow the blinders are REALLY on

 

I like the 488 better but I’m a younger, speed matters kind of guy. Not that the 488 is king of the road but the 458 is slow slow.

 

C8 is about as cool as a 83 vette

 

In stock form, I think 488 looks better. Throw some mods at it and its anyone's game.

 

My favorite year corvette, hands down.

 

Let me know when they start making Grammy award.Winning the songs about the trash 458.

 

I guess I don't see it as difficult to get Torque out of my 458... 561 vs 398 is more. But my Tesla Model S Ludicrous+ had more than both, but that was not engaging. Throws you back, but that's about it

 

I don't associate Electric with engaging.

 

This is actually a topic that's debated from time to time. I've driven both cars numerous times, and I evaluate them completely objectively (except for the design). What matters here is your perception of the car. Some people always think modern cars are faster, and that feels good. Others prefer a more refined driving experience, etc. I think the situation is completely different here. The 458 was a major revolution when it first came out, ushering in a new era. In fact, many authorities said it was a car ahead of its time, which I agree with. Dual clutch transmission, much more advanced electronics, a smooth ride, etc. I think the models that followed never experienced such a revolution. For example, when I sat in the 488 after the 458, I could feel it was a new model, but I didn't say "wow." Moreover, as I've said before, the car's high torque can be a nuisance, especially if you're not on very good asphalt, with sudden bursts of torque, and this (in my opinion) disrupts the flow of driving. Yes, it accelerates effortlessly, but (again, in my opinion) it revs too quickly. Also, no matter what anyone says, I don't like hearing the turbo whistle in a Ferrari.
For example, I know some very experienced Ferrari owners (people who have owned several different models for a long time, are deeply familiar with the brand and its culture, have connections within Ferrari management, and have participated in numerous international events). Some of them, having owned a 458 and other models, eagerly awaited the 488's release, but after a test drive, they didn't buy it and instead moved on to other models, and sometimes even other brands. I'm writing this to express that some of the criticisms about the 488 may be justified, and that such opinions exist.
There's also the design, which is a subjective opinion. Some may like the 488's design more, but the 458 seems to me to be a more thoroughbred car with much cleaner lines. As I said, when I drove both cars, I didn't feel like there was a huge difference in the underlying technology. (Perhaps because the 458 still feels modern and up-to-date to me today.) Some people might disagree, but models like the 458 are very rare within the brand, and perhaps that's why this car is still so beloved. Ultimately, both are quite successful Ferrari models, but I prefer the 458 regardless of price.

 

Great post.

 

I love the bathroom acoustics or maybe he's rapping into the turbos.