why doesn't ferrari remake all the million $ vintage

Because that's not really the game they're in.

Whilst we may well love the old cars, they're pretty crude compared to the latest techno missiles that are synonymous with a forward thinking, technologically advanced company (which is probably why a number of us lover the old ones - but do not forget that the vast majority of people are not weird like us, and there aren't that many people in the million dollar car market).

Also, I think they would actually cost a huge amount to make. Old production methods would be needed which are massively labour intensive. The factory only has capacity for about 4.5k cars per year and they can sell all they pump out of the "easy to make" ones. Why bother?

I do not think expanding the factory to be able to produce more is the right way to go either - witness Lambo at the moment.

Lastly, they'd be buggering up the residuals market and cachet of the older cars in many ways.

Aston only did it because they had most of the bits left for 4 (I think) additional DB4 Zagatos. I think 2 of these went to very senior and key people at Aston at the time (1 being Victor Gauntlett). So it's not as if Aston started doing it formally.

What would be nice is if they made sure they had the tooling capability to ensure all the old models stayed on the road. Parts are already getting scarce for some models as I understand it.

I also wondered a few years back whether they might be sensible to do an "updated" version of some of their milestone cars (250GT SWB, 250LM etc). But since seeing the Ford GT and a number of others, it's probably best they continue evolving the breed with genetic cues flowing through rather than cop out and pastiche it. I'm not a huge fan of the looks of cars from the 360 onwards, but they do grow on you...

 

Just thinking aloud on a similar topic - one would have to throw a pretty big bumper on a 2005 model 250 TDF to make it street legal - or I guess they could just fashion the nose out of rubber.

Of course for offroad use, it's not a factor.

 

I may be a flat-earth reactionary, but IMO the last good looking production Ferrari was the 246 Dino.

Redoing the old models would simply not work, especially in the Federalized American market. I mean, a 250 SWB with a steering wheel that looks like a Toyota's?

Certainly an auto maker with the resources of Ferrari could come up with a successful design for an all new front-V12 retrostyle model -- or, maybe the touch is just gone forever.

The new Mustang is a successful retrodesign that isn't cute or kitschy. The new Ford GT is astounding.

 

It's an interesting thought, isn't it?

 

it's the automotive world. gotta keep moving forward. no way 'round it. history is history. nostalgia is nostalgia. enjoy it, but it is the past.

production methods, materials, national regulatory agencies, existing owners, and a slew of other factors would beat back such efforts to being nearly uninteresting.

i agree that the new mustang is a tour de force in creating modern design with stellar nods to the past. the ford gt is maybe a bit less so since they didn't nod, but rather copied as much as the aforementioned list of problems would allow them - damn fine car regardless though!

it'll be interesting to see whether jag can not screw up yet another nod to the 60s with its upcoming xk model. the spy shots in the latest autoweek didn't get my tootsie-a-rollin' if you know what i mean.

the factory would be crazy to try to reproduce GTOs (250s or 288s) or PF Cabriolets or even Dinos or BBis.

one boy's opinion.

doody.

 

When asked Enzo always maintained his Favourite car was the next one he was going to make, looking to the future not the past IS Ferraris heritage.

 

It's what AC does in England, still doggedly turning out Cobra roadsters as they did not invest in the future, and remain a sad footnote.

It's just not Ferrari. I'm sure Luca still hears Il Commendatore's own famous words:
"I don't give a $%^&* about the past, tell me about tomorrow"
It's stood Ferrari in good for over 50 years.

 

That's mainly FIAT heritage these days, I'm sorry.

 

They wouldn't have to stop "looking forward" as a company philosophy. All I'm suggesting is throwing a stongly retrostyled model into the lineup to appeal to the Vintage lover who wants the advantages and amenities of a new car and has the $$. This would make good business sense, as it would sell well if done right.

Take the 550 Maranello as a basis, lean it down and rebody it, put in a retrostyle interior, gated shifter, no paddleshift option, Borrani wires with knockoffs, and an exhaust system designed to put out some sound, with the traditional 250 SWB/GTO exhaust tips sticking out the back, and there you have it.

 

One thing that you are forgetting is that every Ferrari was actually the peak of current technology at that time. You are suggesting that they throw away their companies mission statement and make 'amusing' cars.

There are plenty of other manufacturers that make cars with confusing design goals ... Ferrari never want to be on that list.

Pete

 

Pete, you need to lighten up.

 

???, what was wrong with what I said? There was nothing overly serious about the tone, just my views ... are you upset that I questioned your views?, if so that is called discussion, and last time I was involved with a discussion I also listened and accepted others views

Who needs to lighten up?

Merry Christmas ... but I still hope that Ferrari do not go more retro than they already do (have a look at the 360, 550, etc. many styling cues from historic models), but I do like the new Ford GT.
Pete

 

Pete...Not upset about anything. I didn't mean to offend you, just my clumsy attempt at humor. Please accept my apologies.

Yeah, I am kind of opinionated. I like the older cars, and think Ferrari aesthetics have been in the can since the mid 1970's. I think Ferrari's building a new retromobile based on an very recent existing front engine design would be a good move, because they could use existing yet up to date technology, saving lots of money, and sell plenty of them by appealing to a distinct and affluent market segment. I just don't see it as a huge compromising factor in Ferrari's overall philosophy, unless it was such a huge success that all buyers wanted a retro Ferrari! The Ford GT is awesome, but a boutique product for a huge company. But, maybe a comparison is apt, since Ferrari is a subsidiary of Fiat.

Best wishes,

Scott

 

100% accepted ... and I will add a couple of layers of skin to myself

Are you sure we are not related?

Fair enough and in some cases I can agree (550 Bachetta, 575 and 612).

I guess I'm not a fan of the retro stuff ... which is amusing because I feel something for the new Ford GT (now that reads weird, but you car nuts will understand what I mean ).

I guess the thing that I love about Ferrari is a close to a performance is the only thing that matters attitude. I know that that is not 100% true, but many of the cars (Ferraris) I lust after are the 100% track focused ones (like the 250GTO and my fav: the 250LM). I think that is why currently I am not such a fan of the 575 and the 430 has my attention. To me the 575 is too much of a compromise and I believe that the 612 does the job of a front engined barge better, ie. you can actually fit a couple more people in it and thus space is better utilised.

Time will tell ... but I currently like the reference to the older models in the modern cars, but that is just me

Pete

 

Pete...I appreciate the reply.

I think the above quote from your post illustrates our respective viewpoints. You are obviously a hard core racing fan, who is very keen on the latest track-focused engineering and technology; you tend to see form as following function and as a natural outgrowth of what is learned through track experience.

I've always been a primarily road car guy. I revere Ferrari's longstanding heritage in the racing department, and am aware that racing and the development and sale of road cars went hand in hand for Ferrari when he was an independent concern. I remember F1 in the 60's quite well, and am currently wowed with the re-emergence of F1 greatness led by Schumacher and company, but have never been an avid fan or close follower of F1 or other track events. Give me a Classic/Ferrari meet or concours anyday. To me, aesthetic qualities are supreme but they have to be part of a complete engineering and performance concept as well. That's why I've been a Ferrari nut since my mid teens in the 60's, as opposed to being into 50's T-Birds or something like that.

Best wishes,

Scott

 

Ferrari could actually do this probably with the people they put out of business. They don't even have to do this themselves. They just need to control and license the right people and take the money. I think its a great idea. Feasible if its for "off road" use only. If they were eligible in all classes of vintage racing. why not put your valuable 250LM or 250GTO in a museum. Factory recreations would be replacable. Their chassis numbers would indicate a continuation series. In England you can buy a brand new body shell for an MG or Jag E-type. Audi lost most of its Auto-Union history after WW2. In the 90's they commissioned brand new Auto-Union grand prix cars including all the castings. There is a huge profit center for Ferrari to take its history seriously. You need to balance the future with the past that created it. I'm in!

Freeman

 

-just to clarify i am not asking why ferrari don't reproduce the old greats for the road with modern tecnology

It would cost more than the peanuts being suggested. New tech and old manufacturing methods/requirements/designs do not mix.

-iam asking for a logical explanation as to why they won't produce exact reproductions of the originals as they are worth millions and ferrari could build them for a fraction of their current value and help elevate the brand even further

A good part of the value of these cars is simply that they are not available cheaper through other means (save for Datsun 240Z rebodies). Build more, the price drops (racing heritage aside for some of these mythical machines now).

-just like shelby does

Hmmmm.

-then we would have a good chance to see and hear them at the track

Fly to Goodwood at Revival time or any number of historic meets around the world. Many of the current owners are genuine enthusiasts who use them.

-maybe they don't want to upset their friends and good customers that own originals

And the problem with that is? They already make as many cars as they can sell. In fact they can probably make only a 10th as many cars as they could sell. But the brand is not enhanced by volume.

- then again a fauvre series 1 gto (rebodied 250gte) a very nice copy with 250gte frame and mechanicals sold about 1 yr ago on ebay for less than 500K

does anyone rememeber what the high bid was???

Sorry, no.

- so maybe the market isn't that big afterall and the originals values are all about speculation

Some of the value no doubt. There's market there for the genuinely rare I think.

- but look how many shelby cobras and shelby daytonas have been
reproduced?

What's the market rate for them?

-ferrari won't let anyone else build them either they sued fauvre to get him to stop reproducing gtos

Fair enough I think. They have an icon with value, and that value is potentially diminished when copies come about.


A bit of a heavy/harsh response, but I can't see this happening at all. I don't see the Ferrari mystique being enhanced at all by doing this.

 

I think Ferrari is losing out by not even having a factory restoration program. When you have a brand that is as much about its history as it is about its future you need to manage this as much as sponsoring an event. The old saying, "One step backwards, two steps forward". The more original parts Ferrari produces for its vintage cars the more they will be worth and more original Ferraris will be on the road and track. It will only bring more enthusiasts to the brand.The parts for my "L" Series Dino from Ferrari is very limited. Ferrari has to look 20-50 years into the future. Porsche has been doing this for years successfully. At Weissach, Porsche's development center, when there are resources available they cast new parts for their historic racecars such as the 906, 910, etc plus an incredible parts supply for 356's to early 911's. They sell these spares to their customers. I think Ferrari's customer F1 program is fantastic. If Ferrari makes it the customers will come. Its all good business and its smart business.

Freeman

 

Um...all that HP with wire wheels?? Pass.

Ken

 

What does this thread have to do with vintage?

 

Everything.

 

Is that why Ferrari was so quick to adopt four-wheel independent suspension, disc brakes, fuel injection, mid-engine layout, etc., etc.?

 

Re-engineered, of course.