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Why Hamilton is not so liked by the British?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Flavio_C, Aug 5, 2019.

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Why Hamilton is not so liked by the British?

  1. Because he is of mixed race

    13 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Because he is Catholic

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  3. Because of his lifestyle / ethics

    25 vote(s)
    36.8%
  4. Because he lives in Monaco

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  5. None of the above

    32 vote(s)
    47.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    14,071
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles
    Alain Prost is among my all time favourite drivers.
    He was a thinking driver who didn't rely on skills only, but on a methodical preparation, something he took a stage further than former team mate Lauda.
    In practise, Prost would spend a lot of time fine tuning his car for race conditions, and not for fast laps towards pole.
    He would drive his mechanics mad, trying his car with different fuel loads, then with different tyre compounds, etc ...
    Prost was maybe not the fastest driver, but the one best prepared on the grid.
    Not by chance he was called "The Professor".
    Prost was racing for Prost, so blind loyalty to a team wasn't part of the package, something I like too.
    Prost always tried to have the best car, and drove for Renault, McLaren, Ferrari and Williams.
     
  2. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    2,546
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    Tony
    No doubting Prost was very [very] good & why he was always in the best team at the right time. As soon as the team started to go wrong or there was a better opportunity elsewhere he quickly packed his bags and was off to pastures anew. I tended to like drivers who stuck with the [team] for good or bad. His stint at Ferrari was mired by political infighting and public belly aching. I don't think Mansell was to endeared to his antics either and left, he should of stayed. So for me I didn't like Prost one bit, he was petulant and a snake in the grass. Just my opinion
    Best
    tony
     
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  3. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    14,071
    England
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    William Denoyelles
    To me that's the sign of a driver who looks after his career first, as he should do.
    Fangio and Lauda did the same, so did Piquet.
     
  4. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    Loyalty and teamwork is usually rewarded, and can result in 7 x WDC's :)
     
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  5. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    2,546
    UK
    Full Name:
    Tony
    Agreed and so cannot whinge when he is dumped for someone else.
    Best
    Tony
     
  6. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    14,071
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles
    Teams use drivers as commodities and dump them as they please.
    Drivers have a relatively short career (compared to teams), so have to make the most of it, IMO.
    To me loyalty has no place in F1, only self-interest matters.
     
  7. ktu

    ktu Formula Junior

    May 30, 2012
    995
  8. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,091
    FRANCE
    Well, this is not right, Tony, because it does not take the facts into account (And I never was much of a Prost fan...)

    Prost left McLaren at the end of 1980 due to his distrust in Teddy Mayer for his drivers safety: he had had a nasty shunt in practice due to a defect in the car or its preparation, and lost confidence, and while being visited by his team mate John Watson in the hospital told Watson: "I'm through, I shall not drive that car for that team again"; he refused to extend his contract, was without a seat and then was then fished out of trouble by Renault, but it wasn't planned that way.

    Prost was fired at the end of 1983 by his employeer Renault because the company needed a scapegoat for their missed attempt at the championship. He was left high and dry at the end of the season, but again fished out of trouble, this time by Ron Dennis and brought back to McLaren by pure luck: his former team-mate John Watson, paired with Niki Lauda, hadn't renewed his agreement with Ron Dennis for a question of money, and was bidding his time as Ron Dennis had no other valuable option. But Watson couldn't have guessed that Prost would be suddenly available: Prost was nine years younger than Watson, and in no position to bargain for money as there was no other seat available: Ron Dennis seized the opportunity, ended the discussions with Watson and got Prost for peanuts. Prost had to wait until 1985 to extract more money for his contract. That shift from Renault to McLaren wasn't planned at all, and was unexpected.

    He left McLaren at the end of 1989, because he felt that McLaren, a team into which he has invested a lot of dedication, has shifted his perspective from him towards Senna; he changed teams with the desire of showing to himself, and to others, that he was still able to be a strong contender for the championship, so he went to Ferrari, as Berger was leaving (they swapped seats). The situation soured in two years due to internal politics in Maranello, and he left (was fired) unexpectingly at the end of 1991, without a seat for 1992. That certainly wasn't expected or planned either, but he put his sabbatical to good use, and signed a pre-agreement with Williams for 1993. After one season and his last championship, he left for good because he didn't want to race alongside Ayrton Senna again on one hand, and on the second hand the Monaco affair has left him with a bitter taste towards the powers that were ruling the sport.

    He then returned to McLaren in 1995 as an advisor.

    To sum it up: he was very dedicated to Ron Dennis and McLaren, and at least two of his most important career choices were rather unexpected and not decided by him (leaving McLaren at the end of 1980 and signing with Renault; leaving Renault at the end of 1983 and signing with McLaren). His exit from Ferrari at the end of 1991 wasn't planned either, and left him without a drive for the next season.

    Rgds
     
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  9. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    Really ?
    Uncle Ron stayed very loyal to his boy Hamilton when he was struggling and underperforming for a few years.
     
    Bas Jaski likes this.
  10. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,091
    FRANCE
    And to Mika Hakkinen as well, when Mika had that awful accident in Adelaïde at the end of 1995. Ron Dennis may not seem to be the coolest guy on earth, but one thing is sure, he was very loyal to some of his drivers.

    Rgds
     
  11. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    2,546
    UK
    Full Name:
    Tony
    Thanks Nerofer for the update, strangely he did have a habit of being in the right place at the right time - by design do you think?, my recollection is slightly different, for Prost to blame the car every time it failed was questionable when cars of the era failed on a regular basis, some with disastrous consequences . His stint at Renault wasn't showered in rose petals either and his condemnation of Ferrari publicly did him no favours, Yes the SF team were a shambles and deserved it imo.
    Best Rgds
    Tony
     
  12. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,091
    FRANCE
    Oh, he was usually complaining about the cars, that's sure; but as said above by "William", he also was first and foremost a perfectionnist, who was very much focused in finding exactly the balance he wished for the race. He never was very much satisfied with himself, either, and always tended to look at what didn't work the way he wanted, rather than at what he acheived.

    I guess this is the reason why he wasn't "very" popular in France; popular, yes, but not VERY popular. People were usually evenly divided here between "pro Senna" and "Pro Prost". It is only after he ended his career that people started to think: "well...51 victories and four Championship is not too shabby, isn't it? Who will be the next Frenchman to reach that level?" Of course, that question remains unanswered...no Frenchman has scored even two Grand Prix victories since!

    If my memory is right, I think his main trouble when he was at Ferrari was that the situation soured with Cesare Fiorio; of course, driving for the Scuderia in 1990-91 was bad timing, because if he had a very good car in 1990 indeed, the team itself had no direction after the death of Enzo Ferrari and before LdM came back: it was a succession of influence from FIAT executives who kew next-to-nothing about racing, incessant politics, etc...

    Rgds
     
    william likes this.
  13. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    2,546
    UK
    Full Name:
    Tony
    #213 TonyL, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
    I think his motivation to join Ferrari was due to John Barnard and the F639 / 40 having huge potential in 89, unfortunately he [JB] left and it was taken over by Nichols / Scalbroni who made a pigs ear of the car. If I recall, mansell had the worst of it retiring nearly every other race
    He was an astute racer that's for sure [to use his words:)
    I preferred Alesi ! super talented unfortunately never got the car he deserved.
    Best Regards
    Tony
     
  14. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    #214 SimCity3, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
    Completely correct !

    Another example of loyalty paying off.

    2 x WDC's against some very tough competition
     
  15. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    2,546
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    Tony
    Its my understanding he was very loyal to lots of people and many of his staff although very difficult to work under, a real perfectionist almost bordering on OCD. But we digress again:)

    Tony
     
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  16. PerKr

    PerKr Karting

    Oct 10, 2007
    189
    Mariestad, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Per Kristoffersson
    In 1998 the McLaren was by far the best car of the field. The australian GP was just ridiculous. McLaren took pole in 12 of the 16 races. The only thing making it interesting was how good the Ferrari team and Schumacher were at getting it right in the race.
    In 1999... Still the best car though not by such a huge margin. If Schumacher hadn't crashed in Britain Hakkinen would not have had a second WDC.

    Basically shows how loyalty can pay off for a lucky driver and how not inspiring loyalty and acting proactively is bad for a team (williams, losing Adrian Newey and being stuck with the rebranded Renault engines).
     
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  17. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    467
    Toronto
    I like Ron Dennis, he is not everyone's cup of tea and disliked by a lot of people because he came from being a mechanic to team owner . He is totally OCD, attention to detail , so much so he is very difficult to work for but he is Mclaren , Mansour was behind the scenes for a lot of the time and had the bankroll and only recently came into the spotlight . They made a good team, too bad things worked out as they did but Mclaren hasn't been the same since Ron's departure .
     
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  18. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    14,071
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles

    Ron Dennis is a very hard act to follow for McLaren.
     
  19. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    29,143
    Manchester
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I don't think Verstappen is trying to emulate anyone so far...

    However Max has a serious cult following in Holland. Blind loyalists. Not seen any of this since Schumacher/Senna
     
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  20. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    And they like to travel. We spent some time with a few dozen in Hockenheim. Great fun.

    Dutch GP is solely down to Max.

    Belgian GP is gradually turning orange too
     
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  21. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2013
    3,191
    Potomac, Maryland
    It's getting a bit much these days. Reddit has been brigaded by hordes of his followers, some proclaiming him as a freaking God. It's getting really annoying.
     
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  22. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    29,143
    Manchester
    Full Name:
    Bas
    A (dutch) friend of mine was at the Austrian GP last year and had the misfortune of sitting in one of the Orange grandstands...the moment the GP was won he ran to his car and made his way outside of Austria when the podium ceremony was presumably still going on...The ''music'' they play is typical "hooligan-esque'' they play in football stadiums.

    I do think it's great he's got such support but it's not my scene.

    I'm (clearly) a Max fan but don't want to be associated with the majority of them
     
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  23. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    2,546
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    Personally I think he is, it gets him noticed and raised his profile. As for the following, well the dutch don't have much to shout about so they are making the most of it:)
     
  24. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3

    Neither does Finland, but where are the Bottas crowds ?
     
  25. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    29,143
    Manchester
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I personally believe max is trying to be his own person..he's not trying to emulate schumacher or Senna (like some vocally are).

    I think Max is trying to set out to be the best, which is something differnet.
     
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