Why is the (pre T) California considered bad? | FerrariChat

Why is the (pre T) California considered bad?

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by OmbryAmbry, Apr 8, 2019.

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  1. OmbryAmbry

    OmbryAmbry Rookie

    Nov 20, 2018
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    KG
    I'm not talking about the "it's the woman's Ferrari" or "it's ugly" or "fake exhaust tips". That's understandable.

    But as I've been looking at them for myself and doing research I keep coming across the same opinion: the original California (non T) is not a good car to drive. The Handling Speciale addresses this to a degree but the car didn't "come together" until it was turbocharged.

    Is it simply a "it's a GT instead of a sports car" or were there some quirks with its character that should be taken into consideration?
     
  2. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    I don’t think people think it’s bad. I think it wasn’t entirely understood by the public. I feel Ferrari were open saying they wanted to attract more female clients and it’s like everyone chose to ignore this then acted surprised that the car was softer than the rear mid V8.
     
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  3. OmbryAmbry

    OmbryAmbry Rookie

    Nov 20, 2018
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    Just read the Clarkson review of the 30. While it is equipped with HS, his only complaint was (to paraphrase) "it's a great car that you don't want to drive because going to the store isn't worth the occasion".

    I haven't test driven one to find out myself. We were considering a GranTurismo but my better half feels that the interior is just way too old (though I prefer the larger back seats but...) The GT is a great driving car, so if the California is anywhere close to it then I wouldn't have a problem. I haven't bothered for a test drive since I'm not committed enough to waste anyone's time.
     
  4. Joey4420

    Joey4420 Rookie

    Apr 6, 2018
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    Joey Shreve
    I think it is personally how the media has portrayed the California, 1) it is the first GT style car with a V8, Second it was a Convertible, and it was the Dual Clutch Transmission. If you watch all the early reviews they all complained it wasn't a good track car (it wasn't designed for that), then some complained the dual clutch was okay, but it lacked something. The compared it to the F430 as well, which it wasn't even the same category. They also said it was under powered at 453HP, but the same people said the 2013MY was better with a whole 30HP more? Then the 2015 T was so much better, well okay at 553HP it does make for more fun factor I am sure.

    I had the privileged of driving one the other day a 2012MY and I thought it handled very well and drove wonderfully. It didn't have the HP or Torque of my SVO460 Powered West Coast Cobra, but it drove very well and handled excellent. Even rode nicely over bumps. Acceleration was very good considering the weight of the car. It sounded better with the top down or windows open, but then again I liked that it was fairly quite with the top up driving. It would make for a wonderful long distance car, which is what it was made for.
     
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  5. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
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    I think from a mechanical viewpoint, it's like a lot of Ferrari. Early adopters seem to do a lot of the Quality Control for the Ferrari, and the first been Cali introduced a lot of new technology to the mainstream Ferrari - DCT, hard top convertible, Magneride (?), etc. So, a lot of the big ticket to items to fix ate particularly worrisome in the 2009-11 models like the transmission and top sensors. And appear to be reduced in the Cali 30 and T.
    All that being said, my Gen 1 Cali had been super reliable over the 3 years and 16K miles. Knock on wood !
    T
     
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  6. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
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    I think a lot of the "it's not a proper Ferrari/it should have been a Maserati" guff came from reviewers trying to be clever and (usually non Ferrari owning) snobs.
    No, it's not a Challenge Stradale or one of the great Ferrari. However its a lot of fun, it sounds great, and well , if you are thinking of buying, why not ?
    As I always say, at least take one out and test drive it. You might end up with a big smile on your face !
     
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  7. cavsct94

    cavsct94 Karting

    Aug 26, 2013
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    I think there is a lot of groupthink with exotic cars.
     
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  8. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Being incapable of caring what anyone opinion is can be a plus with somethings. I only come to opinions about cars after I drive or own them. After all I most of these so called reviewers could just as easily be flipping burgers next week. Their amazing knowledge about cars is not going to them any job offers from auto manufacturers, in other words most don't know very much about what they are talking about. That said I was not a fan of the Cali when it first came out, but cars must have a purpose for me, and it did not fit any I had at the time. Fast forward to now and I own a T (with modifications that really changed the car), and I also have a Maserati Grand Turismo MC, and the Cali T rides better than the MC. I find the Calf to have a dual Personality it can be used to cruise around and it can handle pretty much anything aggressive street driving can throw at it. Unlike my AMG GTS which feels like a wild horse you are holding back unless you are pushing it in race mode. The Cali was meant to be something different from the mid engine V8's and the V12 cruisers, in my mind they accomplished that mission. If you like the Cali then go buy one, people spend way too much time thinking about what other people think.
     
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  9. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
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    Personally I was apprehensive about the California at first, and having been led to believe the I’d engined cars were where it’s at had a minor hurdle to overcome. I’m glad I did because the California in any flavor is a darn nice car for my current driving style. The GranTurismo is also a very nice car but the California performs better and while the GranTurismo has much more back seat space and a beautiful sounding engine (arguably better then some Ferrari’s) the California is just that much better. Carnut has written about both cars and for the money the California is an excellent entry into Ferrari ownership, however you could buy 2 GranTurismo’s (2014 down) for the price of a decent 2010 California and have change though maintainance and part cost would be relatively the same.

    I’d say see if you can get some wheel time in a California and I’d reccomend the 13-14 Cali 30 because the lower weight and increased HP do surprisingly make a difference.
     
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  10. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    #10 4th_gear, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
    FWIW, I was shopping for a Maserati GT convertible, took a test drive which was OK but not particularly compelling. Then I saw a Cali in the showroom and decided to test it also and it was 100% more compelling to drive than the Maserati. The technology and level of interior quality were at completely different levels of sophistication. I also tested a F430 convertible at the same dealership later but found it tiresome for longer drives, of limited scope and the interior seriously dated.

    IMO, most automotive journos, regardless of their driving skills, are "actors" who sometimes ingratiate themselves, provide juvenile entertainment, marketing and put on "a show". You need to give yourself at least a couple of months of test driving before you can make a proper buying decision... for yourself. IMO, many supercars the journos love to promote are actually undriveable on a regular basis, fantasies, not cars you really want to live with.

    I actually like my upgraded Cali30 so much I passed up on the CaliT and PT, added a 675LT Spider for the track instead.
     
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  11. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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    Test drive the Cali, Cali30, and CaliT if you can. I did just that and the Cali30 was the clear winner. The T was a tad faster but just didn't do it for me, the sound was crap and the car wasn't as raw as the the 30. For the money, a Cali30 is hard to beat. Anyone who thinks it's a "soft woman car" hasn't properly driven it. I've had mine sideways with ESC off, taken it up to 180mph and drive it as much as I can. It's quicker than most anything next to you on the road and has two totally different "feelings" when you go top up or down. I had a buddy (who owns fast cars) pull the woman car card, so I tossed him the keys and let him rip some corners...he quickly changed his mind and wouldn't stop talking about the handling, the sound, and the acceleration over 100. So forget what haters say, go drive all 3 back to back If you can and buy the one that stirs your soul.
     
  12. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    As most of you know cars must have a purpose for me and the Maserati serves a different purpose than the T. One thing I find right away (especially when I go from the MC right after driving the T), is that while the Ferrari gives me the feeling that the car is smaller than it is, in the Maserati you are always aware of its size. I have had some seat time in the car since I had the piggy back and exhaust put in, and to say the car is different would be a huge understatement. I expected about 120 (HP&TQ) to feel different, but even I was surprised at how fast the car feels now. I can turn the power completely off with the App, which helps so let me feel what the increase does.
     
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  13. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    #13 4th_gear, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    IMO, the Maserati GT convertible is the very best full-4-seat convertible on the market if you like exotic, high performance and entertaining vehicles. However, so long as Ferrari remains a sister brand that is designed to sit above Maserati, Ferraris will always be more compelling, cost differences notwithstanding, unless you are looking for a full-4-seat convertible.

    When I tested the Maserati I felt it would be my choice if I bought the convertible. I was not interested at all in coupes. I then tested the Cali, really liked the interior, the metal retractable roof and then it made me laugh and giggle when I drove it fairly aggressively in manual mode. No car ever did that to me and I was amazed such a car even existed. The Maserati GT convertible is a wonderful car to use when you frequently take family or friends along for longer trips but since I only needed 2+2 and not a full 4-seat convertible, the Cali was a clear winner for me.
     
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  14. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    My 2 cents worth on the Maser convertible (having owned one and recently sold it to make room for the Portofino); agree, seats four properly and nice and big inside (incl. decent headroom for taller drivers). Sounds amazing, even at low revs

    Main negatives - terrible fuel consumption (although I didn’t actually care to be honest as I only drove it a few times a month). The trunk space is comically small. Gearbox is clunky in manual, and sat nav is terrible

    The Granturismo (and convertible variant) are great looking cars but everything else is now massively out of date... the platform is 10+ years sold. Maserati massively missed a trick by not replacing it a few years ago. Around a year ago they offered a face lifted model with better sat nav etc but it is too little too late... they milked the cash cow for a long time though...!
     
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  15. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    The California is a repeat of the Mondial story all over again.

    A great car that gets constantly downplayed by some specialised motor press, for an array of reasons, very few of which are actually right and/or palpable.

    People who don't spend time around italian exotic supersports cars, most of which have never even seen one let alone own one in their lifetime, usually repeat these claims like parrots.

    Owners take them for what they are and have great fun behind the wheel, usually forming a very strong fanbase, stronger as time goes by and the car ages.

    Usually, downplaying by certain journalists and media results in these cars remaining affordable over time. In some cases, a fantastic gateway to the Ferrari world, a huge amount of car and horsepower for your money. A bargain, in a nutshell.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  16. OmbryAmbry

    OmbryAmbry Rookie

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    Yeah, the 30 would be something I'd keep an eye out for. Better spec'd and the exhaust vids for it are fantastic.



    Thanks for everyone's input.
     
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  17. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
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    I just bought a pretty clean mic setup for my new GoPro Hero7 Black. I'll try and get a video of my car with the Ferrari Sport Exhaust (valves bypassed) and upload it. It's...amazing!
     
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  18. OmbryAmbry

    OmbryAmbry Rookie

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    Would love to see and hear it!
     
  19. Bradley C

    Bradley C Rookie

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    Some people say that the California is not a "real" Ferrari because it's a front-engine V-8 with a "mere" 453 HP. People who say that either can't afford a Ferrari in the first place, or they've never driven one.

    I had bought a 911 S Cab, but wasn't happy with it. Granted, I loved looking at it: the curves turned me on big time, but driving it was another story. I felt like I was driving a go-cart because it seemed really small when I was driving it, perhaps like driving a small roadster. What I really wanted was a convertible GT. Getting in and out of the Porsche was not very flattering for this old guy (54 yo) and my wife. And whenever we drove over a bump, my better half would complain that she just lost a kidney.

    I knew I wanted to trade up to a California, and thought it would be prudent of me to test drive one before buying one. So I made an appointment with my local Ferrari/Maserati dealer to do a test drive. I first test drove a beautiful, brand new GranTurismo convertible. It was very comfortable, and there was plenty of room in the back seats. When I switched the car over to Sport mode, the exhaust note was almost obnoxiously loud -- if there is such a thing -- which I kind of liked. It was a great car, liked it a lot, and could visualize myself driving one.

    Then I test drove a California, and I immediately connected with the car on another level. More than just really liking the car, I loved the car and the way I felt driving the car. The front was shorter than the Maserati, making it feel and drive more like a true sports car, and the car seemed to handle more like one too. It was like I took my 911 S Cab and converted it into a bigger, faster, more comfortable version. The only drawback was that when I put the manettino switch into Sport mode, the exhaust note barely changed, if at all.

    My advice to all California nay sayers is: take it out for a test drive and then tell me what you think. I loved it, bought one.

    Now consider this: if you're anything like me, the word "Ferrari" has a special meaning somewhere inside. I suppose I've wanted one ever since I was a kid, yet as I grew older and had a family, that feeling must have faded away into my subconscious. Besides liking the California better than the GranTurismo, owning a Ferrari would be like making a dream come true. If I had bought the Maserati, I'd be second guessing myself saying I should have bought the Ferrari, because that's what I really wanted, even though I didn't know it at the time.

    Also, spec-wise, the California has a hardtop convertible (which I like), weighs about 500 lbs less, is about a foot shorter, and a full second faster (0-60 in 3.9 seconds vs 4.9 seconds for the GranTurismo), not to mention costing about $100K more when purchased new. You can buy a new Maserati right off the showroom floor, yet all Ferraris are made to order.

    Everything pointed toward buying the California, which I did, and loved while I had it. There aren't a lot of Ferraris where I live, so wherever we go, we get comments on it, even people shouting things to us as we drive by them. I didn't get that with the Porsche, and I don't think I would have gotten that as much with the Maserati.

    A year later I traded up to a Cali T. And in a couple of years, maybe I'll trade up to a Portofino. I love being a Ferrari owner. I guess I'm hooked.

    The exhaust note on the Cali T doesn't sound quite as loud as the California due to the turbo, but it still sounds decent. Someone in this thread mentioned that the best version is the 2013/14 model years, naturally aspirated with the extra 30 HP over the previous years. That may very well be true, don't know because I never drove one, but since my wife and I may want to someday trade up to the Portofino, the Cali T made more sense for us. Even though it's basically the same model as the previous iterations, the Cali T seems to have its own, separate identity.

    When I tell people about the absurdity that some people feel that the California is not a "real" Ferrari, they shake their heads in disbelief, envying the beautiful exotic sports car with the Ferrari badge in front of them. I explain that the Porsche 911 S Cab with PDK and sports chronograph hit 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, the California in 3.9 seconds, and the Cali T in 3.6 seconds. No one cares that it's a front-engine V8: 3.9 seconds debunks all doubters. Like I said, it's a full second faster than the GranTurismo. And if it were twenty years ago, 3.9 seconds would have made it one of the fastest cars on the planet.

    Don't listen to the noise, follow your heart. Believe me, it's a "real" Ferrari. Good luck.
     
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  20. OmbryAmbry

    OmbryAmbry Rookie

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    It's not so much that it is "not a real Ferrari" but more like a "Bad Ferrari". Like, it is mentioned in the same sentence as the Mondial as far as "not good cars go".

    But that said, most of the people I hear that from are guys who are into 488s/720s/etc, and a GT and a supercar are two different animals.
     
  21. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

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    But why should ferrari paint themselves in a box of only making hyper cars and super cars? Reguardless of everyone’s opinion Ferrari sold more California’s then other models making it a smart move for the company. It also appears that the California was used as a test bed for many now used items such as front engines v8 now used in the v8 variant of the lusso and the Cali t being the first turbocharged v8 which now all v8’s are turbocharged. I’m not saying I’m exited about seeing an suv or hybrid cars but if it opens the company to more market share then it can only be good.

    Having driven all the variants of the California I’d say comparing it to the other cars in its class it’s an excellent car, however comparing it to an f430, 458 mclaren or the like isn’t apples to apples comparison because the California was designed to be a touring car and the others are more performance. I enjoyed the 488 I rented for my last vacation but I still preferred the California because of my driving preference.

    The Maserati is a fair comparison to the California but it’s biggest drawbacks are dated electronics slow gearbox and weight, however some of this is reduced moving up to the 2013 and up Granturismo sport’s Increased power output. But it isn’t a bad car at all and is a more obtainable exotic car price wise compared to any modern Ferrari. Both cars, the California and Granturismo, are great and I like them both for different reasons. But neither car is a bad car.
     
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  22. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #22 paulchua, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
    Correct, it is a bad Ferrari, just as bad as the Mondial and 'ugly' FF.

    Like the Dino (That's not even a real Ferrari), the 365/400/412, the 308 GT4, 330 SII, 456, Lusso, California, 348, 208, 308gtsi, 250 GT/E, 330 GT2+2, 365 GT, 365 GTC/4, anything not gated, anything turbo (except for the 288/F40 of course, those are exceptions - why? cuz they are expensive), anything hybrid (except LaF, why? see previous)....
     
  23. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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    I hang at my local Ferrari dealership in the shop for years and the only big issues that I have seen on the early Kalifornia are the Getrag DCT transmission and a variety of issues with the top. All other issues are common with other Ferraris the share close electronics. My only big gripe with the Kali is it is heavy.

    I always saw the Kali as an entry-level exotic that competes with other entry-level exotics by other marques.
     
  24. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    In my opinion it's not as loved because it's not a looker. I wouldn't call it ugly but for 100k or whatever they go, I can think of 100 cars I'd rather buy. They honestly do nothing for me when I see them. The Maserati GranTurismo is a looker, on the other hand. It pretty much boils down to nobody wants an ugly Ferrari.
     
  25. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

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    I couldn't agree more, this car is so damn ugly, fast, and quick handling, I jumped on it like a live grenade so nobody else has to experience it firsthand.
     

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