Why isn't Alonso slammed the was MS was for the qualifing mishap?

dumbest thread of 2007

 

don't read much do you

 

MS is the most unsportsmanlike driver in the history of GP. I don't care how successful he was, I will never be a fan of his. FA may be an arrogant jerk, but I don't remember him ever trying to run run other drivers off the road.

 

Short memory? Kubica (twice), Massa (was it two or three times?), and remember him brake-checking Schumi?

 

If you don't mind me asking who is your favourite driver?

 

And most of those occurred playing some game of grab-a$$ during practices versus any attempt to win. Not saying that running people off of the road is ever a good thing, but at least ensure there is something to be gained in doing so. Alonso's antics in those situations were straight out immature (except the brake-check of Schumacher, as that took away the qualifying advantage he was sure to gain after Alonso was penalized for his antics against Kubica)

 

There is a difference between brake checking and sliding over and trying to run people into the barriers, which MS did too many times to count.

 

I have no interest in any of the drivers in the last 20+ years. I have always been far more interested in the cars. The only drivers that I have interest in go back to the 1920s through 1950s.

 

+1, it's very sad.

Unfortunately, and yes this is going to upset Senna fans, but Senna started all this unsporting "I am the fastest and thus I demand to win" attitude. He smashed Prost of the track when it looked like he was going to lose, and even admitted it.

MS has admitted that he was influenced by Senna's behaviour and unfortunately both these drivers have influenced thousands of others, who now think of motorsport as a contact sport.

These guys did NOT have to resort to this, and simply shows their lack of character.
Pete

 

Ahem....

Prost intentionally knocked Senna off the road the season before. How then is it possible for this on-track antic to have originated with Senna?

 

Pete with all due respect, I agree with Ted on this one. I think Senna was making up for 89 when Prost turned in on him. If you see the angle from the above Helicopter shot it is obvious Prost made deliberate contact. Now Senna returned the favor in 1990 when he felt that the FIA (Jean Marie Balestre) was manipulating the championship by changing the Pole Position to the dirty side of the track. The difference was Senna's contact looked a lot worse than Prost's in 89 which seemed more subtle. Neither one was correct, they were both wrong, but they both had a hand in it.

 

Disagree. Senna tried an impossible pass the year before ... what did he think Prost was going to do?, drive off the track. Prost did not cause that.

Again Senna thought he could do anything he liked and everybody else had to get out of his way ... just like MS. I understand you are biased, but Senna was a very dangerous man on the race track. All that BS about being with God, etc. ... he was a nutter, that just happened to be able to drive.
Pete
ps: And that is not the only Senna incident, the list would be nearly as long as MS's. One of the reason both Senna and MS could pass so easily is the other drivers were ****ting themselves and close to let them past to get away from them. Complete intimidation. Only Prost, Mansell and a couple of others were brave enough to share the track with Senna. Fangio and Moss, etc. passed easily because the other drivers deep inside knew they were inferior, with Senna and MS it was because they were scared.

 

Wrong. Prost later admitted that he drove Senna off intentionally.

 

They ought to be scared of Schumacher, there was no telling what that maniac would do

Did you ever see Senna and Mansell's duel at (IIRC) Estoril, the two of them side by side at over 200 mph, neither willing to cede the corner? Had that been Schumacher, he would have forced the other driver into the grass.

Senna's battles with the likes of Prost and Mansell were epic, he did his winning ON the track. Schumacher's legacy is of his running his competitors off the track, forcing cars into the grass (including his own brother), cutting across the track on starts to block his competitors, and parking his car at Monaco to reserve his pole position.

Schumacher is a great driver, one of the all-time best in F1 history, but to attempt to trivialize his on-track antics by drawing comparisons to Senna is nonsense. Only one driver in F1 history had his entire season cancelled due to his on-track tactics...and it wasn't Senna. Senna has nowhere near the record of Schumacher in terms of cheating tactics, his one black mark was in response to Prost's antics the previous season, for which Senna later expressed remorse and for which Prost later forgave him. Remorse and regret are words that are not in Schumacher's vocabulary.

 

I wasn't. I was saying they were both bad.

But due to your last 2 replies I have to change my views as I was not aware that Prost stated that he did that on purpose. Senna IMO still gave him the opportunity through a crazy passing attempt ... but a bad move for Prost.

Thus yes MS is the worst, Senna the second worst ...
Pete

 

I have to agree with Pete here. Senna was a nutbar on the track and he originated a lot of the Im coming through so look out moves. MS was a little more careful and came flying by when he knew he had the faster car.

 

while i agree that Schumacher was no saint, i also want to point out that being aggresive was part of the game. i don't see what wrong with chopping across the track at the start, or going side by side with his brother, near the wall. this is Formula 1.

if ur not agrressive enough, Massa's Malaysian GP start will come to memory. he was crucified for that, so thats why i dont think anything wrong with Schumacher, Prost or Senna being aggressive.

i'm a big MS fan, but i'm not proud or happy to see him run JV off the track in Jerez. it was really silly, and stupid i think. to me, both Senna and MS had the win-at-all-costs attitude. i appreciate both of them, and to me, both are the same.

 

I could not agree more.
I think the biggest difference between the two was Senna use "rough" tactics as a revenge mechanism, and MS used it as in a " bully" way. His treatment of team mates was just out of pure arrogance. I think Senna had much more self control than MS because he knew he was better than everyone else. (and he raced against some greats), I think MS never had quite the same self confidence.
If it had been MS behind Senna in Monaco in 1993 instead of Mansell, who here thinks he he would have tried to take Senna off.
I for one do. In the late 80's and early 90's there was some fantastic wheel to wheel racing with Senna, Prost, Mansel, Berger, Piquet et all and only a few "racing" incidents. MS took it to another level, and i never appreciated it
Statistic's don't tell the whole story. IMHO

 

Well said.

Pete

 

Pete your posts always excellent to read, because not only are you thoughtful but you always have an open mind.

 

IMO: The mid-80's and to the early 90's era, was an unusual era in F1 racing. You have multiple, similarly talented race car drivers (Piquet, Mansell, Prost & Senna) racing in the same era. When one lacks a little in the talent department, he gains advantage by having a better package. One thing is for sure, none of the 4 drivers were the kind to back down from ANYONE, yellow helmet or not. And because of that, they often pull off some amazing manuvers that can only be considered as overly optimistic or overly courageous. The 4 of them also knew each other very well, they knew exactly what they can expect out of one anther on the track, and that ironically, can actually give them the confidence to race each other wheel to wheel, as they also knew that neither one of them will risk it enough to take each other out. Now, out of the 4, I believe only Senna had the reputation as an "bully" on the track, not just by the media but also his fellow racers on the track. IIRC, Senna was also the only one that had run-ins with the younger drivers who did not "yield" to him automatically, even when they were racing for position: 3 comes to mind at this moment for me: Alesi (Tyrells), Schumacher (Bennetton) and the famous Irvin (Jordan?) incident. I am not faulting Senna here, as IMO, that's racing and all of them are just racing incidents, I am just pointing out that Senna was also considered as the "bully" in his own era.

Now to Schumacher's era, I don't believe there has ever been such a period in F1 history that one individual dominated the sport for so long, regardless the reasons behind it. During his region, I think most of the F1 fans will agree, Mika was his only true adversary, until Alonso arrived as Schumacher's career was coming to an end. And similar to Piquet-Mansell-Prost-Senna, Mika and Michael also knew each other well as they have the history and experience of dueling it out with each other, as oppose to Michael and the others, the competitions were usually short lived. AFAIK, Mika and Michael never had an incident to give the media to write about. It is a shame that the personalities of the 4 mentioned above just weren't there in Michael's era, other than FA and MH, no one really challenged Michael for two years straight in the past 10 years. It is truely unfortunate that Aryton passed away so early in Michael's career, I believe that they would have had some historical battles against each other to last more than just a lifetime, easily rival what Senna shared with Piquet, Manell and Prost.

 

+1

That's for certain.

 

The pass that Mika did of MS at Spa was one of the most exciting passes in modern motorracing history. I cannot remember who was lapped, but Mika sure has big ones

Pete