Why isn't Gallardo selling?

I think Ralph touched on a key issue- refinement. I think that the Murcie and Gallardo are undoubtedly better cars than the Diablo>Countach, but for alot of people, are a bit too sterile/Germanic, at least by "traditional" Lambo standards. One of the Lambo selling points for years against Ferrari was that the production cars, after the Daytona, were too soft.
Now, all this is relative, i know, and somewhat subjective. If Lambo had built the Gallardo as an all-out monster, performance only, no comfort or convenience, I don't know that this would have changed its market prospects, it may have diminished them even further. But, I always thought that part of the allure of the Lambo was its wildness, its excess, its lack of compromise, whereas Ferrari was making the interiors more roomy and comfortable, worrying whether a 360 could accomodate golf bags, and the like. Maybe the Gallardo is too refined, and in that respect, is not different enough from the Ferrari; this, in addition to everything else, including the poor reputation of the company, its dealer network here in the States, and the overall desire of casual owners not to want to bother with more trouble than they already have.... Oh, yeah, and i gotta say, the interior is a disappointment; but, unlike some, i could live with the rear end shape.

 

IMO Lambos are more akin to V12 Ferrari's. A lot of people who buy V8 Ferrari's can't afford them per se, but see them as some kind of investment, where they can get most, if not all of their money back at resale time, while the Lambo is percieved as having the resale value of a modern V12 Ferrari.

 

Seems like a good point. I like Lambos (there I said it) but the new ones lack a little edginess. the new ones do accomodate tall drivers and that's nice.

 

The Lambo dealer in Newport is very hard to get a look at, the local dealer keeps them all locked up, you need an appointment to see them and when I tried, the sales guys were not working Friday afternoon before a 3 day holiday. You can't buy'em if there not accessable.

 

At least you have a dealer nearby. The closest one to me is in Canada.

 

Why???
Marketing,that is why???
And it is very obvious Ferrari is very good at it.The moment you tell someone you have something that is somewhat desirable and they can't have it,the more obstinate and obsessed that person will become.

 

I think many are buying or desiring the F-1 image. As most of us` know there
is very little,if any, crossover to the production cars.

If you "need " a performaqnce car you buy a Lamborghini. I think the more ego-centric buy the Ferrari because of thye name recognition?

Anyhow those of us in the retail` sector knows`the public can be
at times ......very stupid!

I think it will take 5-6 years `of producing reliable German engineered cars
before Lamborghini sales match Ferrari sales.

Most Ferrari owners on this board have NEVER even driven a modern
day Lamborghini.
WE can talk and type all day but the real "test" is the experience.

I'll still buy Ferraris, but only to flip them for a profit.

When a Ferrari marketing firm called me up after I took delivery of the
360 Spider last year among other things I told them the car is grossly
under-powered compared to my Lamborghini.I think the 430 is
a step in the right direction.

 

"a step in the right direction"...I guess so, since it's significantly faster than the Gallardo. And I'm not just talking about the Fiorano tests, where the track does go slightly downhill in the last third of its length (some time after 0 - 100 however) but every magazine that has driven the cars together says so.

Gary

 

I've got nothing against Lamborghini, but face it- one big reason they've sold even the meager number of Gallardos that've been delivered thus far is that many exotic car buyers want a NEW car with full warranty, and since they often can't buy a new Ferrari they opt for a Lambo instead. Do you really think Lambo would have sold even the relatively small number of Gallardos they have if buyers could walk into a Ferrari dealer and select a new 360/430 from stock? For whatever reason (and I suspect it does have a lot to do with racing heritage, for what that's really worth- especially to those of you who don't track your cars), Lambo will never achieve Ferrari-like sales levels.

 

Over the next 5 years...... Lambo could pass Ferrari 5000 sales a year... if

-Ferrari keeps heading down the path of less exotic designs 612,575,360, and longer waiting list
-Lambo keeps improving the repair cost, and comes out with one great design at a sub $200k price

If you have a "hit".. selling 5,000 cars in a year is not that hard with VW and Audi standing behind you.

Never say Never in the Business world... Didn't China just buy IBM's computer division?

 

Okay, strike that. How about "It's incredibly unlikely that Lambo will ever achieve Ferrari-like sales levels"? Seriously though, there's a very thin market for expensive sports cars (despite what those of us who've owned a bunch of them might think), and nothing (okay, almost nothing) is going to evoke the sort of sea-change in public perception of Ferrari and Lamorghini that'd be necessary to raise Lambo's profile among car nuts to that extent. Face it, Ferrari is literally one of the most recognized brands in the world, and only a handful of folks who don't read this forum even know what a Lamborghini is. Like it or not, that's largely attributable to F1.

 

Not the whole thing, just the money bleeding, no growth laptop division. So, they found a sucker buyer and you can make the arguement that China couldn't grow a world quality firm in this field on their own.

Back to cars, here's my theory on why Lambo doesn't sell very well: the market is not as big as everyone thinks it is. Yes, demand is strong for the 360 derivatives, but its not huge. The only place were supply really seems to be tight is the USA, in the rest of the world prices are below the original sticker price. With ~1000 cars a year coming to the USA, the market size is a flea's bite on an elephant's ass. Easy to find that many people with money that want the car. Add one more that has the money and you have a seller's market.

Look at what happened at the high end of the luxury car market:

Bentley - doing well with a new "entry level" platform by undercuting the price of their old cars by ~28%
Maybach - missed their targets by 50%
Rolls Royce - missed their targets by 30%

Yes, there are people out their with serious money. And there are people that are serious car people. But, serious car people with serious money are a smaller slice of the pie. And most of them go after blue chip quality cars, rather than the next or latest offering.

 

I started reading this post a year ago - and like the energizer bunny - it keeps going and going (No Offense Bruce

But since the start of this thread oh so long ago - I sold my F-car and bought a Gallardo. As a person who over the past several years (6 going on 7 years) - I have owned several Ferrari's. I started in the vintage arena did some restoring on a couple of 60's Ferrari's. Moved to a more Modern Ferrari in the 355 Spider - due to I wanted a car with more modern luxuries from the 60's era and my wife is also an enthusiast - so wanted something she was not afraid to drive (she was a little timid around the older ones). I have to say that I loved every one of those Ferrari's and wish I still had each one.

Since I only drive my toy car's on weekends (Job has me on the road/airplane 5 days per week) - I only can justify having one at a time. I put about 3K miles per year - wish I could put more - but again only weekends and the like for me.

I have seen a lot of comments on why "someone" would buy a Lamborghini/Gallardo - doesn't know the history, not an enthusiast, etc. etc.

Well Here is why I bought it - In no particular order:

1.) As a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's - who loved cars from as long as I can remember - 2 cars would always come to mind (and probably to all boys) Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. If any F-car guy - who has been a car lover as a kid - says - "I never wanted a Lambo"... I call BS.

2.) I am not Marquee Loyal - I love all cars and those who respect cars and are enthusiasts - no matter if they are driving a honda civic, minivan or F-car or Lambo... I respect their enthusiasm and love for these crazy things that bring us odd sorts of pleasure.

3.) I always hesitated to buy a Lambo - even when I could afford it - I knew Ferrari's - but didn't know anything about Lambos - and the stories I heard were scary - even for someone who spent a fortune restoring and babying old vintage F-cars.

4.) It was time to move on from my 355 spider (2 years is about max for me with any car - call it Car A.D.D. - most of you have it as well). So I started to look at the 360 and other cars - Talked to a few F-car Dealers to see if I could get on this "allusive" F430 List - to no avail or 4 years down the road.. So I looked at the Lambo - VT/Diablo (1999 - 2001) and the Gallardo.

5.) For around 160K out the door - Tax, Title, etc. I could get a new Gallardo - with the options/Colors I wanted (exactly). And all this with 2 year warranty on everything - including the clutch - yes the clutch is included in the warranty.

6.) I loved it being All Wheel Drive - I do not take it to the track - and Frankly with this much HP and Torque - I want that extra security - specifically if my wife takes it out.

7.) The fit and finish/comfort/options - are awesome... I wanted a little more comfort - I am driving for fun and out with my wife - it is nice to have more than the bare bones... Ferrari is moving this same direction - in most of their cars (Minus the specialties such as the CS and GTC's - for those who want pure raw). There is no reason you cannot have speed / performance and luxury at the same time

8.) Value for Dollar there is no better exotic car for the money than the Gallardo right now. The bigger question is do you like it: Looks, Marquee, etc.

The Gallardos are starting to move at the current price point - many with just 3K or so miles are going for the 145K range - new 04's which there are still some out there are going for the 160K range. This makes the car even more attractive to those looking at 997 T, 360 2002 models and above, etc.

I have talked with many of our members here on F-chat and there are no less than a dozen who will probably also trade over to the G from the 355 or 360... Most of us would probably look at a 430 - if we could get it for less than 100K over sticker... (280K for a 430?). But for the reasons I mention above - why not give the G a go for a year and then move on to the next great deal. Thus far from all the sports cars I have owned - It is the most complete from performance and fit and feature that I have owned (including my porsches, ferrari's, Jag's, BMW M's, etc.).

Just a few of my thoughts

Rich

 

"And most of them go after blue chip quality cars, rather than the next or latest offering."

I think you are mixing apples and Germany in a couple ways:

None of the cars we are discussing are "blue chip" cars or investments. Yeah, you can make a few bucks (say 75k) flipping the latest 430, but apart from that, these cars are not long term investments- none of them, and are not going to be worth stratospheric numbers in 20-30 years. These are "fun" cars, meant largely as a 2d, 3d or 4th car for recreational fun.

I think Maybach and Rolls didn't just overproduce, but truly missed the market in a different way: car guys drive their cars, neither of those cars would be interesting to drive or own. And, if you are someone who likes to be chauffered around, you might not care quite as much; in fact, you might want to be a little less conspicuous, or waste a little less money, from a business standpoint, for what amounts to "transportation." So, that market is even narrower than the one Ferrari and Lambo fight for. It doesn't suprise me that the MM and RR are "off-projection." I think both are ill-conceived: the M looks like an overwrought S, with spruced-up interior parts; the RR looks like a cartoon carictature of itself. (Remember Top Cat?)

 

My comments on the luxury barges was just that there just isn't a huge market.

On blue chip cars, people are starting to realize that they are making too many of the new cars. How many 360's are for sale right now? You can't even find a great Daytona for the same price and they are sneaking up.

Its a great time to be a car enthusiast, but with all of the new offerings from so many companies coming up, there just aren't enough asses to fill the all of the seats...

 

I have talked with many of our members here on F-chat and there are no less than a dozen who will probably also trade over to the G from the 355 or 360... Most of us would probably look at a 430 - if we could get it for less than 100K over sticker... (280K for a 430?). But for the reasons I mention above - why not give the G a go for a year and then move on to the next great deal. Thus far from all the sports cars I have owned - It is the most complete from performance and fit and feature that I have owned (including my porsches, ferrari's, Jag's, BMW M's, etc.).

Just a few of my thoughts

Rich[/QUOTE]

Richard.. great post/analysis!! Sad part is .....it will fall on
the deaf ears of die-hard Ferrari owners. I've given up on most
of these guys.

Welcome to the "dark" side.

 

If I'm selling my 360 for a Lambo, it'll never be a Gallardo. It'll either be a Murcielago or Countach QV.

Edit: Miura S wouldn't be a bad choice either.

 

You run with a different crowd I guess. I haven't found one 360 or 355 owner who says they are buying a Gallardo in the Bay Area. I would love to see one locally owned who would show up for our track days and drives, but it hasn't happened yet.

Gary

 

True, most CA natives are all married to the Ferrari brand for life. One of my neighbors would buy a Hyundai Tiburon tomorrow if you put a prancing horse on the hood. Nothing bad in anyway just that brand loyalty runs deep in some people. For me personally it is which car makes me happiest at that specefic point in time

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

I have posted a thread a few months ago about "Used Gallardo vs. used 360 - What will the price be in 2 years?". I am essentially thinking of passing my Maser to the 3rd owner once the warranty expires... It seems that the consensus was that the Gallardo would depreciate faster, and that I could get an 04 Gallardo for less at the end of 2006.

My dealer in SF, CA had 4 new ones and 1 used one, all of them unsold when I visited a couple of weeks ago. While I did not pull out the checkbook I was given the impression that they could be had at MSRP, and that I could order one for delivery within 6-8 months, whatever color I wanted.
At the end of the day it comes to 3 things:

-Brand: Ferrari wins because of racing heritage and top dog status with Joh Q Public
-Aesthetics: close to a tie, but Ferrari has old world sex in the curves, and the Lambo flaunts its angular avant garde style in its own way
-Value: Audi interior and ownership by Malaysian bra manufacturer dilluted the brand. Ferrari might retain value better

I think Jim is right about the long term prospects. So far, very few if any mainstream manufacturers who bought a boutique brand for their portfolio have come out ahead in the medium term. Then again, all this financial stuff...."Not my circuis, not my monkeys...."

 

Why such a big Gap?

2005 Corvetter proves you can build a car for $50k,.. Ferrari and Lambo at $160k for their entry models is silly. Someone has to bring out a $100k exotic.... and clean-up in the market. Lambo should do this to gain market share on Ferrari for the short-term.

Porsche boxster gives P an entry car for just this reason.

Honda and Lotus claim to be doing a 2nd generation NSX or Esprit but still Lambo could clean up with a cheaper car???

How did Corvette almost do it for $50k ?

 

appointments to see a car!!! that is ridiculous!!! i would never buy a car from them!!! and they lock up the cars!!! i have never heard of a dealership where you cant just walk in..

 

i dont see what the vette has to do with exotics...is a different animal...and having driven the c6 vette 3times, i can tell you it feels like a pick up truck compared to the l and f car in terms of feel ,quality and driving excitement