I would think they could afford it at least.
One reason is that they have been busy with sports cars winning Le Mans etc and trying as a result to persuade Americans of the virtue of diesels - Lambo's racing history is not great - allegedly there are discussions that might involve the parent VW with Red Bull & F1
Ya thats what I thought, that one of the parent companys would fund a team, and from there they could add Lambo to the team name for marketing purposes.
There is no Audi/Lamborghini F1 team because it is not part of the Volkswagen Group's strategy. So far, they engage only on motorsport where there is no competition and where they are assured of success. They left rallying, where they dominated for years, when other constructors joined in and copied their 4-wheel drive technique. They left IMSA, the World Touring Car Championship because they were beaten. They have been concentrating in Sportscar Endurance because so far no other constructor has challenged them. The recent wins at Sebring & Le Mans were just to showcase their diesel range in USA. There would be no immediate return for them by joining Mercedes, Renault, BMW, FIAT, Honda & Toyota in F1.
- The boss of VW (Pieschetsrieder) was never a fan of F1. - Lambo's F1 history is nothing to be proud of. - Audi was great at rally and these days prefers to dominate at Le Mans racing. I'd like to see them in F1, but don't think that'll happen anytime soon. F1 is too elitist for the VW image and winning Le Mans seems to be good enough to sell TDI Audis. Different marketing approach. PS: A couple of weeks ago I was talking to a Le Mans driver and he said flat out (I didn't even have to coax him) that the racing committee (AOC or whatever they're called, the guys that set the Le Mans rules) basically handed the win to Audi on a silver platter by tweaking the rules in their favor. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Bentley and previous Audi wins come to mind. F1 is a different league.
I think if Red Bull can convince the Powers that be at VW Group there is a chance. But even High Ups at VW have said that the Bugatti Veyron was their F1 (Investment wise).
It is a huge risk for a newcomer, especially a maker of high-end exotic cars. If they fail, and they would most likely do just that, it would be a huge embarrassment. As has already been mentioned, Lambo's brief appearance in F1 accomplished exactly what I just wrote - embarrassment. Look at Toyota and Honda right now - huge budgets, lackluster results, equates to embarrassment.
It also is a question of how you position your car/brand in the market: Everybody knows F1 is the technology pinnacle and hence costs an arm and a leg. VW as a brand are nifty cars, but not the top and they definitely aren't supposed to cost huge amounts of money. So it wouldn't really fit. For Lambo/Veyron there is a marketing fit, but then again how many more of those cars would you sell (or want to sell) if you had F1 engagement? The Lambo guys proudly say they don't need racing heritage to feel cool. They need scissor doors instead. As for Audi: Their cars are in an in between market segment: They're neither at the bottom nor at the top. Which fits perfectly with engagements in DTM, Le Mans or Rally. There is a reason Fiat isn't in F1. It doesn't fit and they get their glitzy racing heritage from their Ferrari crown jewel anyway. Having said all that for the life of me I can't figure out why Porsche isn't in F1. They really should be there. They're a perfect marketing fit.
Well, they do sponsor the track layout segment, or at least they used to on SpeedTV. I found that to be so odd - a high end sports car manufacturer sponsoring something in an F1 broadcast, yet they had none of their own cars racing.
Chase, Dr. Thomas Bascher (CEO of Bugatti) was quoted as saying the amount of money they invested technologically in the 16.4 was equivalent of what they would have spent in F1, therefore the Veyron is VW/Audi Group's F1. Would still like to see VW Group as Engine Manufacturer in F1. I don't think that Red Bull with Adrian Newey and all of those Aero Guys still can compete with a factory team without the factory engine.
No I'm not doubting you, I have heard that before too. What I meant was, I'd rather they spent that money on an F1 team than the Veyron. You're right that VW building F1 engines would be great for the sport.
Isn't Lambo's thought pattern of "our cars are for the street" rather than any type of serious focus on racing? So to expect them to do much of anything successfully on the track is well...wishful thinking. Although I do remember recently reading about a Lambo taking 1st in some sort of series in Japan. A first, I think, for Lambo.
In complete agreement. Saying that I would wish someone (VW Perhaps) would put their name on the Cosworth Engine and Supply a budget that would make them completely competitive. Last years Red Bull (Jaguar-Cosworth) was more competitive than this years RED BULL FERRARI.
For corporations, racing is a marketing expenditure. F1 is a minefield. Look at Ford with Jaguar. They bought an up-and-coming Stewart team, expecting to get good publicity for Jag, and made a mess of it. I have no idea what Toyota is doing, but they aren't selling cars on the back of their f1 program, that's for sure. Honda? Maybe. BMW: has anyone DRIVEN a BMW lately? What utter pieces of luxo-barge crap. To quote Buffy the vampire slayer: "ultimate driving machine my ass." Don't get me wrong: the M-cars are fast, but the run-of-the-mill Bimmer is a yuppie luxury car with faint sporting pretensions, with the emphasis on pretense. I'll stop there as I'm just enjoying this rant a little too much!
That is simple answer. When they realised that the same design over 20yrs doesn't work in F1 design they left Porsche is now doing well without F1. I don't see the point they need to go into F1. They win in other motoring categories more centred toward their road cars. If I recall correctly, the Lambo engined F1's only happened after Mr Lambo sold the company and under Chrysler ownership. Mr Lambo didn't need to be successful in a racing series to sell his cars Anyway anyone that knows anything about F1, is that you don't win 1st season out. VAG would need to invest in at least 5-10yrs in F1 to make any return. Mercedes(as in post turbo era) didn't win straight away they spent their early yrs with Sauber. If anything they would want to return with the Bugatti badge not a Lambo badge.
Peugeot is going to race an P1 car next year in the 24 Hours of Le Mans with a 5.5 liter turbodiesel V-12 with over 700 hp and 880 lb-ft of torque. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=2206&thold=0 The PSA Peugeot Citroën group has a lot of experience with diesel engines. The DPFS stands for diesel particulate filter system. The two diesel particulate filters fitted to the engine being presented, carry the numbers 1.195.520 and 1.195.521 which are the numeric production numbers of the filters in the overall production total of all filters since the introduction on to Peugeot vehicles (one million by December of last year). The new engine is a 100 degree 5.5 liter V-12 with more than 700 hp and more than 880 lb-ft of torque. The 100 degree angle will give it a lower center of gravity than Audi's 90 degree V-12. It will still be a heavy engine. Ulrich Baretzky is the head of engine technology at Audi Sport. The following is from the April, 2006 issue of Car & Driver: "Baretzky wasn't forthcoming about precise dimensions or mass. But he did suggest that the diesel V-12 would weigh about 50 percent more than the 385-pound R8 V-8. If so, the diesel should weigh about 580 pounds." I wonder if Peugeot will be allowed to have a 25 percent bigger fuel tank like the R10 when compared with gasoline-powered P1s which is unfair, in my opinion. Peugeot is running the same basic configuration as Audi except for the NOx filter. They plan to run in the Le Mans Series which has 1,000 km races. It used to be called the Le Mans Endurance Series in 2004 and 2005, hence lmes.net. In addition to Peugeot's three main technical partners, Total, Michelin, and Bosch, Eurodatacar will be working with them on the Le Mans Series programme. http://www.lmes.net/uk/index.asp Image Unavailable, Please Login
If there is valid competition for Audi at Le Mans next year, I won't be surprised to see no car entered by the factory. The Audi R10 will be leased to private teams like in the past (Champion, etc...); Audi can claim the glory if they win and disassociate from they if they lose. That's the way Audi operates!
Audi ran a factory effort this year as it is the first year for the R10. Peugeot will run a factory effort next year.
