Why no 1961 model year? | FerrariChat

Why no 1961 model year?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by kevfla, Dec 22, 2004.

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  1. kevfla

    kevfla Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2003
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    I've been puzzled as to the gap in Ferrari model years: Seen plenty of 1959 and 1960 models (SWBs, PF Coupes), then a jump to 1962 (Lussos, PF Cabs).
    Can't recall anyone selling or auctioning a 1961 Ferrari. Can anyone shed some light on this?

    KevFla
     
  2. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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  3. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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  4. kevfla

    kevfla Formula 3

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    I'll try Google. The two links you referenced...weren't what I would consider informative links. The first one pictured a SWB and solicited reader reviews of the car. The second link was about the replica California Spyder in Ferris Bueller's Day..., claiming the car was built around a MGB. First time I've heard that! I know that some cars are titled in the year they were first sold and not the actual year of construction. But dang! Let's hear from the F-Chat authorities!

    KevFla
     
  5. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    In 1960 Ferrari produced 306 cars, in 1961 441 cars and in 1962 493 cars.
     
  6. kevfla

    kevfla Formula 3

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    I'm not doubting that Ferrari made cars in 1961. I just thought it's odd that in the various media, I can't recall anyone selling a "1961" Ferrari whatever. The years seem to jump from 1960 to 1962. Anybody buy a 1961 GT/E? I've been an enthusiast since 1984 when a friend lent me a 275 for a week.

    KevFla
     
  7. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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    Kevin - I read your initial question (especially the title) as meaning you didn't think any 1961 Ferraris were produced. I think it's clear there were, even if one of the links I posted wasn't meaningful. (I just copied the first couple of Google hits.)

    As I said, I believe it's just coincidence that you've not seen any for sale recently. But here's a web site with links to a few that appear to be currently for sale.

    http://www.ferrarinexus.com/
     
  8. kevfla

    kevfla Formula 3

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    Thanks Bob,

    The FerrariNexus site is a terrific addition. OK, here's another angle and a clarification on my original question:

    The site had model year 1961 GT/Es and convertibles (cabs & spyders).

    Regarding 2-seater enclosed cars, Cavallino magazine lists the PF Coupe production from 1958 to 1960 and Lusso production from 1962 to 1964. SWB production is listed between 1960 and 1963. My question is then, other than the SuperAmerica, was the SWB the only enclosed 2-seater available in 1961 and if so, how many 1961 SWBs were made? Thanks in advance!

    KevFla
     
  9. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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    Kevin - I can't give you any particularly good answers. An old article I have from the FML shows a total of 167 SWB's produced, but doesn't say how many in each individual year. Perhaps GTE, who knew Ferrari's total production number for 1961, has the SWB number for '61.

    The same FML article agrees that no PF Coupes were made in 1961. However, another book I have suggests that PF Coupes were still made in '61 (no specific number given).

    Sorry I can't be more definitive.
     
  10. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

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    I own a '61 GTE. Nice to see its rarer than I thought :)
     
  11. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    Between 1959 and 1962, 165 SWB's were made. I do not know exactly what number is built in 1961, but since this was the SWB's last full production year, I suppose most SWB's are actually from 1961.

    There's two shortwheel-base California's built in 1961 (2083 GT and 2987 GT)
     
  12. Gerald Roush

    Gerald Roush Karting
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    First of all, keep in mind that prior to 1980, when it became a requirement of the federally mandated 17-digit VIN, Ferrari did not designate cars by model year, only by date of production. This is still true for Ferraris made for most markets outside North America--hence the "ZERO" in the 10th slot where a model year designation should be.

    I have a copy of a letter from Ferrari, dated 2nd February 1970, addressed to the Federal Highway Administration in Washington, D.C. responding to the latters request for information regarding Ferrari's 1970 model year. The letter states:

    "The first 1970 Ferrari car was manufactured on the 2nd January 1970 and the chassis number thereof is No. 13177

    "The numeration of the 'FERRARI' and 'DINO' cars is made by progressive numbers for each mark. We, therefore, do not make any model distinction as normally done by big manufacturers."

    As for 1961 production--the lowest confirmed serial number I have for a 1961 production Ferrari is S/N 2175, a 250 GT SWB Spyder California. The highest number I have is S/N 3127, a 250 GTE 2+2. Virtually all the Ferraris built between these two numbers can be considered a "1961".

    As for offerings of these cars, you should look in the Ferrari Market Letter. There are currently three offered for sale there: S/N 2369 GT, a 250 GTE 2+2; S/N 2895 GT, a 250 GTE 2+2; and S/N 3089, a 250 GT Pininfarina Cabriolet Series II. There have been others offered earlier in the year.
     
  13. Gerald Roush

    Gerald Roush Karting
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    I have 62 250 GT SWB Berlinettas identified as having been built in 1961.
     
  14. Gerald Roush

    Gerald Roush Karting
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    There were 21 250 GT SWB Spyder Californias built in 1961, from S/N 2175 through S/N 3077.
     
  15. kevfla

    kevfla Formula 3

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    Thanks for your input Mr Roush! Your reference resources are surpassed, perhaps, only by the factory. If time allows, would you or one of the other experts on F-Chat, post a list of total production numbers by year (from 1949 to 2003)? Thanks in advance.

    KevFla
     
  16. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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    Kevin - I sent you a PM.
     
  17. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm curious about something. I have Hilary Raab's book, and he lists the first 1961 car as 2387, a 250GTE, and the last one as 3317, also a GTE.

    Gerald, I trust your numbers more than Raab, but I am curious as to the nature of the discrepancy. Was it something related to "built" vs. "delivered," or is Raab simply in error?
     
  18. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    Thank you for correcting me!
     
  19. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Kevin... As per Mr. Roush, please see the following information; unfortunately, we don't have the requested information going up to 2003, we have it from 1947-1996...


    1947: 3
    1948: 5
    1949: 21
    1950: 26
    1951: 33
    1952: 44
    1953: 57
    1954: 58
    1955: 61
    1956: 81
    1957: 113
    1958: 183
    1959: 248
    1960: 306
    1961: 441
    1962: 493
    1963: 598
    1964: 654
    1965: 740
    1966: 665
    1967: 706
    1968: 729
    1969: 619
    1970: 928
    1971: 1,246
    1972: 1,844
    1973: 1,772
    1974: 1,436
    1975: 1,337
    1976: 1,426
    1977: 1,798
    1978: 1,939
    1979: 2,221
    1980: 2,470
    1981: 2,565
    1982: 2,209
    1983: 2,366
    1984: 2,842
    1985: 3,119
    1986: 3,640
    1987: 3,902
    1988: 4,001
    1989: 3,821
    1990: 4,293
    1991: 4,595
    1992: 3,470
    1993: 2,289
    1994: 2,639
    1995: 3,158
    1996: 3,363
    Estimated output for 1997: 3,496 (statistics do not include racing cars (F1, F2, etcetera), as well as Sports, Prototype and GT competition models which are not marketed to the public.

    Those are the official Ferrari figures as published in the Ferrari 50th anniversary book, Ferrari 1947-1997.



    Merry Christmas, everyone...! :)
     
  20. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    Ferris Buehler's friend's Dad's 250 California was said to be a 1961 model; but of course they didn't use a real car for the movie.

    Ken
     
  21. Gerald Roush

    Gerald Roush Karting
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    Hilary used the figures published in the Maranello Concessionaire's booklet "A Guide to Ferrari Cars Since 1959." I have no idea where the folks at Maranello Concessionaires got their figures for the early years, but I do know that their information for the later years applies to the first car they imported, i.e. RHD cars!

    S/N 2175 is the lowest serial number for which I have a FACTORY CONFIRMED (via the build sheets or assembly data sheets) completion date in 1961. I do know that there are cars with higher serial numbers (in fact, the next four . . . 2177, 2179, 2181 and 2183 . . . that were completed in 1960!

    S/N 3127 is the highest serial number for which I have a FACTORY CONFIRMED (via the build sheets or assembly data sheets) completion date in 1961. The next serial number, 3129, is confirmed to have been completed in 1962. However, S/N 3119 is also confirmed to have been completed in 1962!

    Unfortunately serial numbers do not always fall in strict chronological order. The numbers were assigned to the chassis as they were built, and some cars took longer to finish than others. This becomes especially true when you look at cars that were not part of "normal" production. An extreme example:
    S/N 5989, a 500 Superfast, was completed in JANUARY 1965; S/N 6023, a 250 LM, was completed in MAY 1964!
     
  22. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for the information!
     
  23. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    I have:

    1998 - 3.652
    1999 - 3.669
    2000 - 3.946
    2001 - 4.305
     
  24. Bill P

    Bill P Karting

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    Kevin:

    By my count, which could be off by a car or two, Ferrari built 305 1961 GTE Series I and II cars. I would guess that 40% of them are in the U. S.

    -Bill Preston
     
  25. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Sweet... Thanks...! :)
     

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