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Why so much Cali hate?

Discussion in 'California/Portofino' started by cosmicdingo, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. cosmicdingo

    cosmicdingo Formula Junior

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    Is it because:
    1) Maser derived chassis/styling?
    2) It's percieved as a "woman's" Ferrari. or less hairy chasted than other F-cars?
    3) do you think it's ugly?

    I knda like it, and would buy if I had the cheese. cause it seems the most usable, and technologically advanced. I'll hang up and listen.
     
  2. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

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    All three except the Maserati look at least ten times better and more masculine.

    Oh, and the California's got fake exhaust tips. Very un-Ferrari.
     
  3. anunakki

    anunakki Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 anunakki, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
    I can answer that.

    Ferrari was 'our' marque. The marque of the auto enthusiast. People that loved its history and could quote serial numbers.

    It has, for the past 20 years, been transforming itself into a status symbol instead of what it started as...the symbol of a true enthusiast.

    The California...while I am sure a fantastic car...is a large step in the wrong direction for 'purists'.

    Now, Ferrari is free to do what it wants...but that doesnt mean we have to like it.

    if the Cali wore a Maser badge I would hail it as a fantastic automobile (still has an ugly ass) but Ferrari sint suppose to be about creature comforts and folding hardtops. its supposed to be about the pure driving experience. At least in my 40 yr old eyes.

    Just my $.02
     
  4. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    #4 Spasso, Dec 19, 2008
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  5. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    #5 Spasso, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
    Er, the correct term is MARQUE.
    A marquee is that big illuminated signage above the side walk at the entrance to movie houses. A very common mistake made by many.

    For everything else you say I agree 100%

    and may I add, THE 355 WAS THE LAST SPORTS CAR FERRARI BUILT. The rest were "luxobarges in comparison. I would still own a 550 though.
     
  6. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Six Time F1 World Champ
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    disagree, Ferrari has been a status symbol from day one. Enzo wanted a car that the rich and famous would buy to pay for racing, and he achieved that. Look at all the movie stars, musicians, etc. who owned Ferraris in the 50's.

    To the OP, the Cali is hated because:
    a) its a badge engineered Maserati
    b) its ugly
    c) it is, for Ferrari at least, "down market". Sort of like the 924/944 Porsches, which were hated by the 911 purists.
    d) it destroys exclusivity, at least in theory. We'll see how many orders they get. The recession (depression?) may "save" Ferrari in that the brand doesn't get diluted in this market
    e) its designed for people who don't necessarily like cars. Its competition is the Merc SL, Bentley GTC, Jag XK8, 911 Cabrio, etc. next time you see one of those cars at the gas station, ask its driver 1) why they bought it, and 2) what kind of engine it has. Cali owners will by and large give the same answers.
     
  7. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    In 1981, I bought a Dino. I got nothing but grief from Ferrari "purists". Some were Ferrari owners, some were just ordinary "Ferrari enthusiats".

    I heard it all. The Dino was not a "real" Ferrari. It was too slow. It did not have 12 cylinders. It was just a big Fiat. It did not have a Ferrari badge. It was the expensive twin to to the Fiat Dino Spider. The engine was "mass produced". It was made cheap for the masses. It was designed to go after the rather common Porsche 911. It was not welcome at "real Ferrari" shows. When it was, it was in a special "Dino" area away from the true Ferraris. The Dino was the end of the world for Ferrari, etc, etc.

    I heard this for ten years. It wasn't until the early nineties that the car started to catch a second wind with "purists".

    Honestly, I did not care. I loved that car and was glad there was something I could afford to buy when a new 308 was over twice as much.

    So, when "purists" knock the California, as they did the 599, 612, F430, 308GT4, and going all the way back to the Daytona, we should not be surprised. To some, the last "real" Ferrari was made in 1967.

    Ok, let the flames begin....
     
  8. anunakki

    anunakki Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 anunakki, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
    Just because something is rare and expensive does not make it a status symbol. A status symbol exists soley to be a symbol of the owners wealth.

    Even in the early days Ferrari wasnt about that. yes they were expensive and rare. But they were crude driving machines created through Enzos uncompromised vision...remember he said "you buy the engine I throw the rest in for free".

    Thats MUCH different than whats been going on for the past decade where every new model has more and more creature comforts and higher weight. Ferraris of Enzos day werent tailored to the comforts of rich bankers that dont know how to change their own oil.

    Really Ferrari 'back in the day' was more like Koeniggsegg is now. Yes you have to be rich to buy one but they arent status symbols...they are for the driving enthusiast that can afford them.
     
  9. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari designs used to be sublime, inspiring, stirring, innovative and widely copied...........

    Now they're styled after Japanese cars. 'nuff said. :(
     
  10. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    I totally disagree.

    There isn't a single Japanese auto made today that is so ugly, uninspired and sporting such incongruous form as this car.

    It looks like an elephant's dildo.
     
  11. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    There is NO WAY you can place a 599 or Daytona (even though I don't care for them much ) in the same category as the Titanic 612 or the improved but uninspiring 430 in the same category as the Bulbous, Rodeo Drive Housewife Appliance they are trying to offer.

    And let use not forget the 365GTC/4, hated by many but a grace all it's own and an excellent road car to beat, with a sound to match!

    As a side note, the Dino may not have been fast or true to blood but had undeniably beautiful STYLING, SOMETHING THE CALIFORNIA DOES NOT.

    I would rather own and be seen in a 308GT4 Dino than a California, somebody might mistake it for a Hyundai Elantra..............................................
     
  12. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    In a nut shell
     
  13. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    People hate the California because it's largely a woman's car and Ferrari is the domain of men. Ferrari is largely a politically-uncorrect chauvinist's car and this upsets that applecart.

    You can say it's ugly and it's a Maser, but every woman I've shown pics of the Cali love it and want it. Women will die for a red convertible. That is mostly a fact. So it's looks are up to opinion. It isn't that bad looking. And a few bold members are outspoken about their like for it. It wouldn't be my first choice in Ferrari, but I wouldn't complain with one in my driveway.

    Also, it's not "downmarket" when it costs as much as an F430. So that notion is erroneous.

    And if one derides the F149 to be a fleet vehicle, then the same must apply to an F360 or F430 --those which share parts and mass production with Maser and Alfa. But again those get a pass card because they are mid-engine sports cars.
     
  14. VisualHomage

    VisualHomage F1 Veteran

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    LOL I enjoy your sense of humor.... "the Bulbous, Rodeo Drive Housewife Appliance"

    btw, I love the 365 GTC/4. That would be one of my 1st choices. I love it's styling.
     
  15. randyleepublic

    randyleepublic Formula Junior

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    Pretty much everything you guys say is true, BUT, I still want one! Why? Because, despite all the valid criticism you are all missing one thing: this car, with a proper manual transmission, will be the most fun to drive on the street car ever built. By anybody. The only way it might be improved was if it could be made lighter, but even that is debatable. It's not pure anything except F.U.N. How do I know this? Just a feeling. One thing, please do not call it a badge engineered Maserati. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Maserati is a glorified Fiat with a stolen and de-contented engine. The California is a real Ferrari. You'll see. I don't think they will sell that well, but, hey! better for me, no? I figure in about 5 years, I'll be able to grab one at a real nice price. Wheee!
     
  16. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #16 WILLIAM H, Dec 19, 2008
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    I actually like the front end, its the rear fender that is an immature and inexcusable flaw on a car costing this much, even the Lexus looks better

    and speaking of Lexus the Cali is a sell out, F is building this for the non car people, the people who could care less about F's racing and history and just want bragging rights
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    and you know this because ? ;)
     
  18. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Rookie

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    When you own a Ferrari, 'bragging rights' come with package whether you wanted them or not. Everyone has heard of Ferrari. It is one of top ten Brands of all time. People know that the cars are expensive.

    But even before the Cali there were plenty of well heeled folks who bought Ferrari's for the status symbol.

    We have heard the criticism about the styling. The Cali isn't the most beautiful Ferrari ever. But in my mind that's not a deal killer.

    One thing I found interesting was that the rear corner of the Cali from a 3/4 angle- that flat surface/ vertical crease- I always thought was a strange/awkward style decision. But if you look at the same rear corner of the Enzo you'll realize that it is a style reference to the Enzo.

    The designers really try to get things right and reference the tradition and history, create something new and old and beautiful while still meeting crash/safety requirements and aero.
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    "style reference to the Enzo." BaHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.

    Try again.

    I'll give you a hint. I own two cars that that crease is a styling reference to.
     
  20. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    Or famous-Courtney Love and Amy Winehouse. The Cali is the Amy Winehouse of Ferraris
     
  21. swaq

    swaq Karting

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    My wife doesn't like it. :p

    I don't dislike the design, but it wouldn't be anywhere near my top 10 picks for a Ferrari.
     
  22. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

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    its pretty girly
     
  23. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ
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    I'm surprised nobody mentioned POSEUR! Although I bet it is a well engineering car that is a blast to drive. Just so uninspiring.

    A lithe, forward-mid engine V8 along the lines of a 355 would be hot.
     
  24. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 Bullfighter, Dec 19, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
    Well said.

    We're Ferrari loyalists, and we feel betrayed or at least let down by the looks and the purpose of the car.

    As has been said before, the California is awkwardly styled in the name of practicality and comfort. If your heroes are racers, and Ferrari is the ne plus ultra of sports cars, it's hard to explain why we need folding hardtops, climate control, sat nav, power seats, golf bag-sized boots, cockpits the size of a New York hotel room, etc.

    It also falls into the trap of worshipping the past. The 355 took after the 308/328 at a respectful distance, borrowing a diluted version of the famous fender curve, tail lights, etc., but while it looked back it also has an integrity of its own -- it makes sense as a cohesive design even you have never seen a 308. The California doesn't. It's a collection of cues from the 1950s mashed together with some Enzo/F430 bits and hung over whatever the engineers/marketers required in terms of proportion.

    The most recent Ferrari that I have tremendous respect for is the F40. That took the already not-so-cushy 308/328 concept to new levels. Everything on it seems to have a purpose. Nearly everything designed since then seems to be an exercise in design by focus groups. As long as it has the badge, people will buy it. The whole reason for Ferrari seems to have slipped away.

    The Dino 246 is a real sports car, pure and simple. It wasn't about straight line speed. It's beautiful because there's no extraneous stuff on it -- just nice details. It served its purpose and looked great doing it.

    I would absolutely lump the 599, 612 and California into a common category -- bulky, computerized, disposable cars designed for comfort-seekers who need Intel to keep them on the road and a big boot for shopping. I'm not wild about the F430 styling either, and the car's too big for two people, but at least in Scuderia form it's consistent with what Ferrari used to be all about. It makes sense -- not aesthetically, but conceptually. I don't love the 360/F430, but it is a Ferrari.

    Oddly the 612 bothers me the least of these three jumbo Ferraris, because it is overtly a 2+2 cruiser, so it's a link to a tradition of 2+2's going back to the '60s. For what it is, it's one of the prettier cars, IMO. I would be happy to have one as a daily driver. I wouldn't dream about it every night, but it's a damned fine car.

    The 365 GTC/4 just isn't an attractive car, to my eyes. The bumpers are horrible and the proportions are wrong. The Daytona is automotive porn. Pininfarina did a few stinkers back then, in between its masterpieces. The California is the latest in a line of stinkers.
     
  25. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

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    This is the point where someone with a big set will step up and create their own car company because they don't like what Ferrari is doing. Any tractor manufacturers out there in the baying mob?
     

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