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Why so 'mysterioso' with Enzo production?

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by finnerty, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    #1 finnerty, Aug 17, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010
    Yesterday, I was perusing the latest issue of Forza while sitting in the waiting room at the Dentist. Yes, my Dentist is that cool --- has Forza in his waiting room!

    I was reading through Sheehan's latest "market update" on the F-Supercars, and something struck me as both surprising and well, sort of stupid. Of course, we all know that Ferrari claimed production numbers for the Enzo were (399+1) units, but Sheehan also asserts that "the Ferrari historian group I belong to has a world-wide count of (459) confirmed Enzo's". He also goes on to say that it is believed more than (500) were actually built.

    I don't get the reason for the secrecy / duplicity on the part of Ferrari to withhold the true number of Enzo's built. What would they possibly gain by this? The difference between 400 & 500 is nothing like the difference between 10 & 50, 100 & 1000, etc. in terms of rarity / exclusivity.

    Also, is it possible that part of the discrepancy can be attributed to the number of FXX's built, in that they possibly have "Enzo-like" serial numbers and production records? Meaning that wasn't each FXX essentially originally built as an Enzo and then modified into an FXX --- not built up from scratch as a completely unique chassis?
     
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  3. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

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    No idea why but they do (and not just with the Enzo).

    No, that's not the case.

    Jonathan
     
  4. TOOLFAN

    TOOLFAN F1 Rookie
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    #3 TOOLFAN, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
    More money, repeat business, ie more money.

    No. There are at least 34 FXXs if not 39. The first FXX has a much higher serial number than the "399th" Enzo. The only Enzo that has a close serial number is "400". The FXXs were not repurposed Enzos, though they do share several components.
     
  5. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Except for the FXX prototype, 139744, which has an Enzo VIN, which is just higher than the last (known) Enzo, 139305, and just a bit lower than the Pope Enzo, 141920. :)
     
  6. TOOLFAN

    TOOLFAN F1 Rookie
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    It's still higher than Enzo "399":). The pope Enzo was nearly completed long before it was given an official VIN. Can we count the prototype FXX VIN as it's a road legal VIN? :)
     
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  8. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    No, I count it as an FXX and not an Enzo.

    It's funny, these new cars (599 XX, FXX, 430 Challenge, etc.) are getting separate 'racecar' VINs. But not too long ago (think 360 Challenge), the VIN on a Challenge car was simply a European VIN. There was no way to tell, just by looking at the VIN, that the car was a Challenge car or a road legal street car. Even the 599 XX prototypes had 599 street car VINs.
     
  9. AX lover

    AX lover Karting

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    What do you think of angry customers? Ferrari told "the world" (and they customers) that only 399 cars would be build. If they confess that they build more cars people might get angry and sue Ferrari because their car is less exclusive than promissed.

    PS Maybe some of the 'new' Enzo's are just 'rebuilds', aka crashed cars that are build again (with or without a new VIN).
     
  10. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The new Enzos built around crashed VINs are not counted in the total number. Those are extras.
     
  11. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    to answer original poster's question:

    revenue
     
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  13. Chicko

    Chicko Formula 3

    Carbon, out of interest, how many Enzo and FXX Serial numbers have you recorded ?
     
  14. AJ

    AJ Formula 3

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    Don't hold your breath.
     
  15. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    Aside, from the old days when Ferrari didn't really keep diligent records and had no idea what they actually built (they weren't doing it purposefully to be misleading or as some sort of "marketing strategy"), I don't think that's the case anymore with the modern cars.


    Sure, Ferrari's goal is to make money --- they are a running a business with stockholders.
    But, why didn't they do this with any of the other limited edition, Supercars --- 288, F40 & F50?

    I don't buy the idea that they did this (assuming that they did) with the Enzo just to turn a few extra bucks.....
     
  16. DennisForza

    DennisForza Formula 3

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    Well they did over produce the F40 from what they originally said they would build. This did get them some negative feedback from some early buyers. Their keeping mum on the Enzo's real numbers is likely to keep the first original buyers from becoming irate.

    The over production was probably not "just to turn a few extra bucks...." but rather to keep some "special" customers happy, the extra duckets is just a bonus for them.
     
  17. AJ

    AJ Formula 3

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    Ferrari produced more than 349.
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    +1

    It all comes down to commercial or economic reasons, and Ferrari doesn't have the time or inclination to report on such issues. Its not as if chassis numbers are concealed by Ferrari (they always get discovered by those who really want to know), and it is far less ridiculous than say a private party who tries to conceal the chassis number of a Ferrari that is already in the public domain.
     
  19. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

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    There isn't really any secrecy--the fact that Ferrari makes post-production cars like the ones you mention is all the proof you need. Ferrari just doesn't make a second press announcement saying, "Hear hear--we SAID that we were going to make only 399, but have now decided against that initial number...blah blah blah."

    Saying that you'll build "a limited run of 399 cars" really means that you'll secure slots for the 399 buyers highest up in the Ferrari customer hierarchy. After that, well...Do you really think Ferrari would turn away people (and their nice, green $650K) who didn't get into those slots out of some righteous notion of brand-imaging dignity?

    Hardly.

    Money is money, limited production run or no.

    Cheers.

    ;)
     
  20. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    They have to crash test 2 or 3 to meet USA DOT standards...

    Carby is right, a few VINs have been jacked up to allow a new car to be driven underneath.

    The Bank of Scotland has two in the rebuild process to preserve their equity....

    450 sounds excessive to me but many of them could disappear into Russia or the ME and no one would be the wiser.

    I like the intent of the Pope's #401 car, so whatever the Press Release says, that good enough for me.
     
  21. Ferrari FXX

    Ferrari FXX Formula Junior

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    Several are going to be crashed also. So who cares if its 399 or 450. How many Enzos have been total lost?
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 BigTex, Aug 18, 2010
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  23. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

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    A VIP at the factory told me they made only 400 Enzos (399 + 1 for the Pope). I believe this is accurate as they also told me the production number of my Enzo and it doesn't match what people have been tracking on the Web.

    If you think there are over 400 Enzos, I challenge you to present over 400 unretouched photos of Enzo VIN plates, not just numbers that people reported.
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 joe sackey, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bill:

    The VIP at the factory didn't lie to you, he simply told you the "official" number. The Ferrari factory (and the Lamborghini factory) have operated this way since inception. Customers are told the official version. Historians establish that this version is almost always a conservative estimate.

    Here is what Sheehan had to say on this subject in 2007:

    "As for being one of 400 built, thanks to historians like Gerald Roush of the Ferrari Market Letter, a well–known member of the serial number swapping group to which I belong, we have confirmed records on 446 Enzos to date, and the list is growing. This is obviously well over the official number of 399 plus 1 used by Ferrari.

    How can this be? Very simple; Ferrari is a “for profit” organization, and once the development and production costs of the Enzo were paid for, each extra car delivered at $650,000 or so had a very large profit margin built in. Add a lot of wealthy and well–connected owners who were miffed that they were not on the lucky list of 400, and you have a burgeoning market making wealthy clients happy by making “extra” cars. So much for the one of 400 myth…."

    More recently he reports 491 cars.

    True there are some errors out there on the internet, but I think after all these years of some very qualified historians looking at this issue,its clear there are more than 400 cars.

    Here is a pic of the "Pope's Enzo" as owned by Don W, the "+1" car.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 Napolis, Aug 18, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
    Tru Dat.
     
  26. JH

    JH F1 Veteran

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    It's the exact same story with the F50's, so I see absolutely no reason why this shouldn't apply to the Enzo too. It's highly likely that Sheehan is right. The F40 number, is probably correct though :)
     
  27. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    Well, I certainly would hope so! Not much point in a lack of full disclosure once you've already admitted to making over 1,300:)
     
  28. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    Now, I'm starting to become more suspicious......

    So, what do you guys think --- any reason to doubt the (272) production figure for the 288, as well???
     

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