Why the 2.7 355 cars are more coveted. | FerrariChat

Why the 2.7 355 cars are more coveted.

Discussion in '348/355' started by brettb, Feb 26, 2015.

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  1. brettb

    brettb Karting

    Jan 13, 2011
    57
    The 2.7 early 355's hold a special place in 355 specialist collector hearts and a lot of newer members always ask why the 94/95 cars are the holy grail of std production 355's (after the limited edition Fioranos and Challenge cars).

    Those that have later cars tend to downplay the 2.7s positives for obvious reasons, but this subject always seems to rear its head so best to outline whats its all about.

    The info below attempts to explain the passion of the 2.7 94/95 cars for those that don't know. Here is the good and the bad!

    2.7 Motronic differences
    ------------------------------
    • 2.7 is OBDI (94/95) vs 5.2’s OBDII (96 onwards)
    • All 2.7s Manual
    • All 2.7s GTB and GTS only
    • There is no stupid engine immobilizer/alarm to strand you in the middle of no-where
    • 2.7 has only 2 O2 sensors in your exhaust. M5.2 has 4 O2 sensors.
    • Some 94/95 models have two fuel filters, then they changed to the single one.
    • The 94s had the large type power steering cap, then later changed to smaller type
    • 2.7 has two airflow meters. 5.2s only have one thats the same size. Mas Air Flow Meter (MAFF) area for a 5.2 is 5.1 square vs 9.0 square inches area for a 2.7. This should probably signal a greater HP increase than 5hp that the factory had stated
    • So 95 has a few more horsepower. Its apparently only 5bhp more, but it breaths better.
    • The 2.7 is supposed to have better torque for the same reason (more noticeable than the bhp difference)
    • The 2.7 will sound better (rawer and little louder) than the 5.2 with the same exhaust (whether standard or Capristo etc) because there's a different y pipe structure.
    • 2.7 will run less refined than the 5.2
    • 2.7 euro cars had harmonic resonators.
    • Air ducts in the c-pillaron 2.7
    • Cats can be bypassed without throwing a CEL light on 2.7, you can remove cat convertors easily because the o2 sensors are before the CAT unlike on 5.2.
    • 2.7 is a symetrical system. Two of everything (one for each side of your engine).Therefore - 2x Ecus, 1 or 2x fuel pumps, 2x MAFFs ,2x lambdas
    • 2.7 is OBDI. OBDI means that the fuel maps and programming are stored on a chip. Chip programmable (i.e. you physically swap chips to change the fuel maps or programs). It also means that you don't need a special tool to "scan" or read the error codes like OBDII. Instead of using a scan tool on OBDI you press a button connected to the ECU and the error codes slowly flash your Check Engine Light (CEL) on your dash. With OBDI, erasing your error codes is as easy as disconnecting your car battery. OBDII means that the fuel maps and programming are stored in flash memory. Download-programmable (i.e. you connect to the ECU and download code). Error codes remain in OBDII even if you disconnect your car battery. You need a scan tool to delete error codes. You need a scan tool to read error codes (scan tools are cheap...about $30 on Amazon.com).
    • ECU-Also the 2.7s respond better to any engine tuning one may do and they are easier to program for more power
    • ECU- 2.7 fundamentals and "secrets" are somewhat known in the tuner community whereas with the 5.2, Ferrari has managed to keep most of its internals proprietary and secret.
    • 2.7 steering has No airbag and therefore steering wheel is generally agreed to be cooler and better looking, but obviously less safe.
    • All the 355 Challenge cars have the 2.7 system, there must be a reason they stayed with it. More power? No worries about passing emmisions? Or just the need for consistency in the challenge series to keep things on a level footing? Maybe all of these!
    • The 2.7 is a much easier system to work with for a DIY’er.
    • It was U.S. legislation that changed it. 1996 cars and on had to have air bags and OBDII. Ferrari sometimes gets complete exemptions from U.S. legislation based on its small production volume, but didn't win one with the 355. So Ferrari couldn't keep the impressive 2.7 systems. 5.2 is a good OBDII (2) system, though. But 2.7 is a fantastic OBDI (1) system.
    • Subjectively speaking, most Ferrari mechanics agree that the 2.7 is the better system for the 355, mostly for the same reasons mentioned above.
    • If emissions controls are what impresses you, then 5.2 is your go-to system...but if being competitive at Le Mans or blasting around a track in a F50 or 512M is more your game, then 2.7 is the preferred system.
    • 5.2 is more consistent in emission compliance and runs smoother. Its OBD2 has more sensors and it will actually help you trouble shoot your car easier.

    So the 5.2 was a system forced on Ferrari to aid in better emissions and ensured entry into stricter markets.
     
  2. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I believe there are 2.7 spiders no? Intreresting point you make about 5.2s running smoother. My buddy who has a 5.2 tells me he feels his car idles and sounds smoother and more refined. I also think (im not absolutely sure) 2.7s run quite rich. Even with performance headers (4-1) and after market exhaust, they still run rich. Lots of room for modding without ecu tuning ( carbon cold air intake system+ slightly improved header + exhaust + test pipes).
     
  3. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    And there is something about early 2.7s having a slightly different head design for more flow, but prone to failure?
     
  4. mike_747

    mike_747 Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2008
    794
    Seattle
    You said "All 2.7s GTB and GTS only".
    Wrong - my 95 2.7 6 speed was a spider.
     
  5. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    2.7's run really rich at idle and low rpms. My car has a 94 build date and the original owner had both heads replaced in 1996 because of a crack in the head. The ports were bigger in those early cars. I had computers tuned and had a lot of fuel removed below 4000 rpm and car was much more responsive.
     
  6. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    Lake Villa IL
    2.7 should not run rich once warmed up if the o2 sensors are functioning. Unless you're speaking of wot operation? Even still, I've yet to see any dyno results that indicate they are very rich.
     
  7. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    They do run rich especially until they reach operating temps, that is why the earlier cars take a different plug. I talked to the guys at Lake Forest years ago and they said that they never just start a 95 without running to operating temp because you will foul plugs. This has happened to me several times and someone with 5 serial number higher car in my city who repeatedly fouled plugs because he would start his car and then shut it off. The guy who dyno tuned my car, said he reprogramed my fuel map to take a lot of fuel out below 4000rpm because it was so rich. Runs much better.
     
  8. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    2.7 cars came with airbags as well. Mine has one.

    Ditto the rich operation, which probably plays a hand in melting down the cat converters and blowing out headers especially on cars that aren't run hard.
     
  9. Robb

    Robb Moderator
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    They are all good cars.

    Only reasons I prefer the '95 - emissions / exhaust friendlier and no damn alarm fobs.

    We own a '95 , a '97, and a challenge. Normally the last years of a car's production are the best so the '98's and '99's would be sought after and I'm sure rewarding cars.

    I would only buy a '95 if I were to buy another. I could really care less who buys what... I'm not trying to convert anyone but I'm happy to tell you I would not trade my '95 for a '96 to '99 for any reason. :) I need a snickers bar...

    Robb
     
  10. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    What air fuel ratio do they run on a cold start? I assume someone has checked this with a wideband?
     
  11. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Early cars are a bit easier to do "engine out" as the ECUs are inside the engine bay.
     
  12. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    My car was running 11.3 now is 13.2 A/R and has 5 degrees more timing than stock.
     
  13. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    That's a big change! I'll check mine as well.
     
  14. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    I'm guessing he is referencing ignition and not cam timing
     
  15. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    On idle? 11.3 is hella rich. 5 degrees timing advance on idle or all across the board?
     
  16. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
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    Who can do the ECU change to remove the fuel?
     
  17. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    Ignition Timing increase on low end. Fuel taken out below 4000rpm. Tuner thought still rich on top end but afraid of leaning it out too much or increase timing. Computers were piggy backed to main computers to change fuel and timing by laptop. Had this done 4 years ago .
     
  18. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
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    Bob , do you know what software was used to tune/adjust the AFR and timing on your car?
    to my knowledge ecu flash software is very rare for 355?
    the only provider that I know of that offers tuning for the 355 is Fabspeed
    called Evomsit and fabspeed charges $2000 for it.
     
  19. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    So it was rich even with your Gruppe M cold air intake, fabspeed headers, and exhaust? And then... You pulled out more fuel? Or was it 11.3 stock?
     
  20. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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  21. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    INTMD8. You should be building maps for our cars :).
     
  22. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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  23. brettb

    brettb Karting

    Jan 13, 2011
    57
    Sorry guys, 2.7s did come In spiders and with airbags towards the end...there are discussions of a different head and slightly larger injectors used but nothing has been verified.
     
  24. brettb

    brettb Karting

    Jan 13, 2011
    57
    Dastek will do it via a unichip but obd1 requires you go into the wiring harness, it's not quite plug and play. They are doing this to a obd1 Maserati ghibli gt for me at the moment.
     
  25. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    I don't know whether or not the 2.7 runs rich but the WSM say that at idle the CO and HC limits before the cats are the same for the 2.7 and the 5.2.
     

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