Why --WERE-- TR prices so low?

what if it's all true........

 

Does it make you feel superior to denigrate what someone else has and likes? You don't own one - why do you care so much?

...and Kerry, RIGHT ON!

 

I think what Mr. Red was saying was that these cars are old, not weak or poorly engineered.

Porsche 911s are well-engineered, but after 20 years... well, a car's a car. You can either wait for stuff to fail or do it in an organized way. The only reason we don't hear about $10K bills on Mercedes, BMW and Porsche is that people run those into the ground and then they get scrapped, whereas Ferraris are supposed to last forever -- despite being cars.

How many 1987 cars are on the road today in trustworthy condition?

 

Depends on your definition of "excellent". I hear "great" and "excellent" tossed around a lot, and invariably when I see the car it ends up being "decent" or "nice". At FOC/FCA events, I make it a point to look at the 308/328s (and earlier cars), and I have a good idea of what $40K buys you: a nice driver 308 QV or a 328 that "has good curb appeal and had an extensive pre-delivery service during the Reagan years".

Check out Newman's 308 restoration thread and tell me you wouldn't trade a 10K-mile TR straight up for that car -- if you could.

 

I was quoted $5,500 to $6,000 tops. After 2 1/2 months the car was ready and better than ever.























The bill was $12k and change.

 

Yes, evidently it does. He has a 328 and has never owned a TR, yet he bashes them over and over. If you look at his profile, he wants a Lambo, so please don't say anything bad about them or he will bash YOU (see his posts #42-43). This thread was started for guys exactly like him. If you have no first hand experience in what you are purporting....go to the Lambo threads.

 

Some real, if anecdotal, data:

1987 TR I have owned for 6 years.
Mileage: 22k

Expenses during ownership:

1.) Clutch: Installed myself, one+ days work. No hassles, easy to do. Total cost for me, under $1500.00 dollars for clutch, t/o bearing, seals, flywheel machining. Now I got a killer deal on the clutch that would be difficult to do ($700 for AP clutch), I did a lot of research and found a non Ferrari equivalent seal set so my costs would be less than usual. So lets say the average cost is around $2200.00 for a do it yourself clutch job.

2.) I lost th right hand bank ignition exciter box. Cost from T. Rutlands: $350.00

3.) Replaced broken trunk release cable with bike cable: Cost $2.95

4.) Ummm, there is no number 4!

Tota cost: Around $2500.00 (Actually for me less than $2k)

So that works out to .....about $400.00 a year maintainance costs. Yep that is sure expensive!

Oh, and I do want a major engine out redo done this year. I will pull the motor myself. (No harder than any muscle car V8 to remove) and then have an independent in my area do the labor, I will buy the parts myself from T. Rutlands. Total cost will be around 4-6K-no more. I am not planning on adding tires/ball joints/etc to the job, nor to th cost of a major.

So after 7 years of ownership I am looking at (high side) $8500, (low side) $6500, and remember-I will not need another major for 5-6 years or another 20-30k miles.

So, adding some reserve in for unseen costs down the road, I figure for 12 years of ownership I shall have spent around 10-12k total for maintainance, or around $1000 per year! Yea, now thats a lot of money!

Having talked to a number of other TR owners, my costs are on the lower side, but not unreasonably so. I have worked out that the average cost for ownership, per year, for the 4-5 guys I know who own TRs is about 1500-2000 per year, averages over a 5-6 year period of time. Also not one has had a diff failure, and none of us know any one who has had a diff failure. Of course they happen, but what is the actual failure count? What are the odds then?

Notice I have not once talked about TR values, falling or rising. It is of no concern to me. If the price drops to $20k tomorrow, so what? I certainly won't sell it. And if it goes to $200k I still will not sell it. Nobody should be buying any post 1980 Ferrari (Save F40's etc) for investment. There are simply too many other better things to invest your money in. Buy a Ferrari for enjoyment and that should be enough.

For those people with 308/328/BB's who relish the idea that TR's are trash and useless-all the better. Then when I want another one I will have just that many less people fighting me for the car.

 

There's always alot of threads on Fchat speculating on the future values of each car. I've never seen these threads as being "business and investment". I rather expect that anyone contemplating a purchase, or has already purchased, a Ferrari, has made the money to do so in other ways. (execpt for independant dealers, who, imo, couldn't care less about future values either, only current values).

Most, imo, believe we will lose money, hope to break even, and just enjoy the fun dream of making money. and some, luckily, do make money ("Better to be lucky, than good") ;-) (again, except for the hobbiest/dealer, or professional dealer who is another animal entirely, and are not using these threads as gospel either).

Bottom line...these threads are like discussing golf, imho. It's fun. And, semi-educational...but, only to the extent that it's fun to see what another's take on future values will be. Not so much to make decisions on how to pay the rent.

 

Great info Brian!

I personally believe anyone wanting a 12 had better buy now, they'll not get cheaper, I'd feel safe in betting on... ;-)

 

Thanks Jon, thats a tough call given the amount of work (and money) spent to date. Most people say im nuts, I already know that, lol.

 

Paul, FoO is no different, as is anyone else. You are a mechanic by trade i am not. Kerrywitter, and carguy are hobbists and enjoy to play with the cars. To say the average owner is getting ripped because they pay 10-15k...it is what it is. Plus, some owners are very anal in how they wish to play, i personally dont want to have Kumo tires on my TR...i dont think they belong there....others swear by them......good for them. Others thinking driving on 5 cylinders and not have a power window work on the passenger side is fine, well it isnt it for me. I also dont want to drive my cars with 9 yr old tires on them that are hard like hockey pucks, no matter how much tread is left on them.

I have not bashed the TR or other ferraris, but people need to stop and think that not everyone has the time or the garage space or the patiences to get it done. Plus my time to play with the car is to drive it, not to fix it, i make more per hour doing what i di best as opposed to paying a shop $85.00 per hour to fix my cars. F0O charges $7,500 to do 2 belts (only) on a TR from November to March only and thats because they give you 15% off on the winter rate, plus an additonal if you say you are part of the FCA club. Last time i checked thats alot higher than most quotes.

The reality is, ferraris are expensive, and TRs moreso, so when they go for 50K and someone has to do a diff, or a service, explain to them they have to pay 20-25% of the purchase of the car, they tend to soil themselves. These cars are not for everyone....thats why prices are all pretty equal....a boxer is the same price as a 360....they will all be at that lower price....and its all because of maintence....and people who really cant afford to fix them correctly (unfortunately)...... not because they are not reliable....thats what brings down the price.

 

Dont you love those pie in the sky quotes

 

And i guess those restored muscles cars fetching 100K were all painted at Macco for $300


i wonder how many 308s/328s will get restored since everyone thinks they are only sub 50K cars.

 

Seriously..........you need a new doctor........whats with the aggression ?

 

As they say... talk is cheap and I say so are the people who down talk the TRssss. That's right, you heard me, if you want a transportation car get a Honda. If you have the money and can buy a TR chances are you are looking around for one, if you are the type who just pretends to be a Ferrari enthusiast and don't no JACK S*it about the TR, get the hell out of our way.... We are known to be fast, under the radar and tuff to stop. Watch out, you might get run over and not know what hit you.

Just like I always said in the past being an investor of all types. If appraisers had any money, they already would have been my clients.

Love my TR... NOT FOR SALE.... That's Right you Heard me... keep looking at the picture that is the closest you will ever get to it. Please keep your opinion to yourself. Jealousy is not a good thing and if you have a budget, FERRARI is not for you.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I totally understand Kerry's attitude towards all the TR-Bashers. While reading his emotionally charged post I found myself nodding in agreement. He's right, this section of fchat is for TR enthusiasts and supporters. But it seems that there are more detractors than enthusiasts here. It will be interesting to see how things are in say 3 or 5 years. If the TR's place in the market has changed by then (and it will to up)...I will be more than happy to watch for a dead crow at the road side, scoop it up, stick it in the micro for about 20 seconds....and serve it on a paper plate to all the TR-Bashers (I hear warm crow is better than cold crow). And as for Kerry's rantings earlier...all I can say is.....Kerry for President!!!

 

+1

 

Don't drink and post....?

 

Conversely, what drives the haters to post the same crap over and over?

We get it - you don't appreciate TRs. Apparently they were being given out as prizes in Crackerjack boxes. Millions were produced, they cost half the national debt to maintain, throw it away if anything breaks, etc. etc.

The bottom line is that I like my TR - it's been mine since 1994.

Is it perfect? No - I don't care

Is it fun? You bet!

Why not just let us live in our blissful "ignorance" instead of constantly pi$$ing in our Cheerios?

 

It's rampant. Just to go the racing section read all the repetitive Massa bashing by some people. They say the same negative crap over and over and over.

To Paraphrase Rick Pitino back when he coached the Celtics: " the negativity on this board sucks and it stinks."

BTW +2 for kerryw's and carguy's posts recently quoted.

 

Hi Kerry, have all the opinions you want. I am a supporter of the marque, but cursing doesn't really help you make your point, and it sure doesn't make me feel good about my 15 year old Ferrari-loving son being on here reading it. So, yes, that's offensive.

 

I don't have a Testarossa anymore, but I love them and might buy another again, really serious about it. It cost me an arm and a leg to keep, it was a garage queen and neglected as service wasn't a priority. I drove it over 30k miles in almost three years and it was a reliable daily driver. Up to this day I still think that the TR line is the best Ferrari for the money and the most exotic looking.



"Service, expensive? Nah, drop the broad receptionist on the bill, will ya", "by the way I'll be sending a case of Jack's and strippers for the mechanics next friday".

I suggest the bashers should take their problems some place else like the forced cuckold forums.

 

I agree........................whoops dropped the bottle opener..............God I'm dizzy.................Amy Winehouse, where are you when I need a finger to point out the problem!!!

Kerry

 

I apologize....................but with 6 sons of my own, 22-36 years of age, I can garuantee you he has heard it in the gym locker room or at the bus stop and has not been affected as to how he performs his calisthentics.................If he has a great Dad he will push aside the improper verbs and adjectives and be the young man that Father has invested his time, guidance and love in.................But at this point he shall be aware of how reverent one should be to Enzo and the F Car God's that gave us this loud, fast, overpriced art that we rant about................. Teenagers and old baby boomers...................can I get a Hallajuela, for the mighty red and yelow that exemplify and surround the prancing horse............See I just found the bottle opener under the ottoman where I dropped it this morning..................Time to invest in a pocket sized metal detector so as not to let the fog lift...................ever so slightly!!!

K-K K-K-Kerrrry (Roger Daltry of The Who type stutter as heard in "My Generation")

PS And I was worried what I would do while sitting in LA for 3 days....................you guys are the best! No Sh*t, I mean no Doody!!!!

 

You know I can't help but be reminded of a newscaster in LA during the Viet Nam war "Love it or leave it". Hmmm, well I've spent the last few weekends doing the work that everyone else complains costs so much money. I also spent it installing Brembo brakes on the front and rear, new wheel bearings front and rear, new cv joints, and other misc. stuff. Whenever I post about improving something I hear from the self appointed Ferrari Gods who think if it didn't come in a Ferrari box I am somehow degrading the car. Leave the car along, it was designed that way, so it should never be touched. What bs, I don't stick my head in the sand and believe theres not improvement available. I've had people wanting to know why I don't buy another car if I can't drive it as is. Once again screw off. I enjoy working on my cars and have been doing if for 40 years. I agree theres way to much bs on this chat line about points of view that don't have any value, but there will always be detractors.

So to the people who say I shouldn't have changed the wheels to 18", piss off. To the people who don't like me changing the fuel injection to electronic, piss off. To the people who say the brakes were fine as is, piss off. Etc, etc, etc.

Kerry, pass the bottle opener.

John