Yes, I am a bit of a fan but hear out the logic. The season is over, lots of ups and downs. Fun season, lots of surprises. For the future, Lotus looks questionable for next season (they've lost a good number of people to MB), Mclaren is Mclaren, Red Bull is Red Bull, and Ferrari are a dark horse as they will either further their development of F2012 with I'm guessing a slightly longer wheelbase version of F2012 or go with something completely different. We can all rest assured 2013s cars will at least look better? With regards to MB, Daimler have had another record profit quarters in a row. They're doing well and I would not say it has anything to do with F1 really. But with the company doing well, F1 will always be there. Daimler only (use this lightly) have to put $70m (Daimler developing a new road car actually costs hundreds of millions+) into the team each year as their heavy list of sponsors handles the hefty remainder. Petronas is itching for a longer contract but Daimler knew the title sponsor space was already heavily contested in 09 for the MB F1 team so I doubt they'll give anyone an easy time plastering their name to their F1 cars regardless of if the team is more competitive. MB is money on the field, their cars have a cult following and that's what those sponsors want to be associated with. Whether it's Petronas who renews is immaterial as the point is there will always be big sponsor cash waiting to get a whack at putting their name on MB as '09 proved. W03 was not as unsuccessful as some might think, so I would not be quick to write off W04 (if that's what they chose to call it). Consider W03 a technical exercise, which most F1 cars are anyway. Here's why: Ignore what happend in China or Monaco or any qualy result early in the season. Those incidents were not reflective of W03s fundamental issue which only became known once other teams progressed with their aerodynamics. Read on. Technically speaking, W03 is a fascinating machine but their brilliant suspension was hampered all season by the fundamentally designed DDRS front wing structure, which could not be altered (or they made the choice not to completely change the car which is what would be required, not clear) which in turn made especially the front tires very difficult to heat. Also, the suspension system itself needed more aero to really operate properly as without aero the heat ranges were simply all over the place. So, the DDRS was in essence not a system they could just 'drop' like any other upgrade. This all worked fine at the beginning of the season but as other teams progressed it obviously sunk W03's ship. MB finally deduced the tires for their suspension and the car had decent race pace but simply down to the lack of front wing development they could not keep their sharp pace they showed so well early on as they had to make too many compromises in their aero setup due to their DDRS. Some may not know this, but the Coanda system which MB employed so late in the season had already been developed pre-season, but MB was concerned with how it would work with their rear tires and DDRS system. This was recently confirmed on a German website. When the Coanda system was finally being run they could not utilize its full advantage due to an inadequate front wing to balance the rear end thus they could not run the same rake as top teams. Some of you may recall changes to the cascades on W03 but that was quite literally all they could do. W03 will be a car that 'almost was' had it not been for a clever yet hindering DDRS arrangement which royally tied MB's hands with what they could do to the car. I'll tell you what W04 needs to be: vanilla, Pure vanilla, but with the potential for any upgrade they need to throw at it working, which I believe MP4-27 and E20 actually properly represent. W03 was a 17 layer wedding cake which worked only when it wanted to and upgrades were contingent upon how the fundamental DDRS system would react to them. What this tells me is MB are certainly capable of the high level of thinking required to build a WCC car, but they went a bit too out-of-the box with W03 with such a complicated system which limited machine which is quite the opposite I'm sure of what they wanted. We've never seen a renewed 'works' team design using such methods or staff which tells me MB is completely different than Honda/Toyota/BMW, and it always has been different simply due to their top-shelf staff anyway. Still, don't forget BGP001 was a Honda design anyway. With regards to Lewis: Lewis won't change anything. W04 will be what it is, and Lewis and Nico will either drive it or crash it and complain about it. We do know W04 is being developed by more people than W03 including the minds of Willis and Costa this time. Point being is MB have the technical know-how to build something great, but they shot for the stars with W03 and made entirely too complicated of a machine which simply limited its development as a fundamental issue. MB will crack out a winner though.
Only a fool would write them off. Tis now the time for optimism; They're all (apart from poor old HRT it seems) "confident that they'll do better next year"...... "Will take a step forward". Blah blah. We'll see. Cheers, Ian
wasn't WO1 and WO2 a test bed as well? Agree with the last bit. Work on the new car has been well ahead of LH. He'll only make a real difference to WO5 I'd say, or more of an influence in any case. I'm hoping for a great year with Kimi, Vettel and Massa, with hopefully Kimi winning the title otherwise Massa (if he drives like he has been doing the last few races...and IF he's allowed to...)
I disagree: With Lewis MB finally got a top level driver. So if W04 doesn't win races, it is down to the car, not the driver. This is similar to when Ferrari hired Schumacher: Once they had him on board there were no more excuses about drivers not coping with the car etc. It was clear where the failure was. Same thing now with MB. That said, MB F1 is under the control of a huge company and therefore won't have the agility and speed as one of the garagistes. In that sense nothing will change. Anybody disagreeing with this, I'm happy to take bets against MB/Lewis.
Good point, you could be right but I just don't view MB as any different than most teams are now with the exception being WIlliams and Mclaren who are true independants and even that isn't 100% the case as Williams is traded now. Daimler themselves really don't have much to put out in terms of keeping the F1 team propped up anyway, it's literally a drop in their bucket. I thoroughly believe Nico will have a proper fight with Lewis. MB's issues were not so much driver related, no way. Lewis is just another hired gun who won't change anything at least until W05.
The one thing MB has now is Lauda: He might actually turn things around. I think Lewis will blow Nico into the weeds. Then again we all* said the same thing when MS joined... *except Is
Yep! "Wait till *next* year!..... As I said, nows the time of year when hope springs eternal - They're all beavering away with high hopes...... Still not sure what his role is, but his history suggests he's more likely to screw it all up...... Cheers, Ian
"This is why we watch." I'm really looking forward to the pairing - MerHam is a known quantity. Should Nico give him a hard time we'll know he's also "got it". OTOH, if he gets his doors blown off he won't be around too long. Cheers, Ian
How much input do you think the jockeys have in the design process? I could be wrong, but I'm gonna say more or less zero. Wouldn't surprise me if there's places in the factory not even they can get into - They're not the most loyal characters after all. Cheers, Ian
Well, no driver on the grid could even come close to challenging for the WDC in the W01, W02, or W03. No one.
Well, that'd be too easy. But I'm open to suggestions. Like will they actually challenge the top three or not. No disagreement. And while it is obvious that the MBs sucked, it is helpful to have a driver like Lewis to eliminate all the excuses from engineering. And I do believe a guy like Hami will push development forward. His input will change the development.
I have faith in Ross most of all but I also have faith in Hamiltons natural talent. I like and respect Nikki but have reservations, only time will tell.
That's a bit vague. Glock was a thorn in the side of Ferrari/Massa in 2008. Grosjean was a thorn in the side of Ferrari/Alonso this year. Nico has won with the MB this year. Was he a thorn?
Ok, I have reason to be vague, am stabbing in the dark. I will say the Ham v Nico battle will spur each other on, Ham will come out on top, and the result will be Merc, lets say will be more of a interference, they will have more success, finishing higher and qualifying higher thus becoming more of a nuisance to the top 3.
Not necessarily. He'd be just another journeyman driver (isn't he already?). Guys like Patrese, Irvine and Barrichello made long careers based on that. Agreed on all that, so no bet.
Fair comment. As for being nothing more than a journeyman we'll find out next year I guess. Should he be competitive with MerHam then we've all underestimated his abilities..... Cheers, Ian
Michael Schumacher was the most development oriented driver ever, constantly testing. If Michael couldn't push development, Lewis surely won't either. Development 2012 season for W03 must be used very lightly as W03 was not really a car that could be developed as much as it needed without seriously overhauling the concept of the car, which is the DDRS. I believe that is what stopped development of this car, when they realised they simply couln't with what they already had as a fundamental. Similar to W02 and having fuel tanks too tall and too short a wheelbase.
Lauda is a figure head, has to be. I really can't see him doing much more than yapping at the public with a broad brush. Bless his little ol heart right.
I agree with that, but I have to say W03 in terms of build quality looks like it was built by a top-tier team. W03 is a completely different level of car in many ways compared to 1, and 2. W03 was hindered by its on cleverness.
I'd be willing to bet you that Lewis won't finish in the top 4 in the WDC. Agreed. The comparison to MS coming to Ferrari makes sense. Disagree here, as well as Lauda turning around jack ****, but we'll see. How about an over/under bet on how many media gaffes Lauda will have next year? The guy is too much of a distraction.
Mercedes-Benz AMG is a race team run by committee. With Schumacher joining Lauda as an advisor next year, Schumacher will be spying on Lauda who will be spying on Brawn who will be spying on Haug. Hamilton who feels he's been strangled by the uptight corporate atmosphere at McLaren is going to quickly learn that it was nothing compared to the corporbot atmosphere that's looming over Mercedes-Benz AMG. Hamilton would have been better served had he stayed the course at McLaren for 2013 and jumped to Red Bull in 2014. Unless Brawn comes up with the next Lotus 79, it's going to be a train wreck. BHW
Anything further backing up your position that MB is just another corporate run team? I only say this because most every team on the grid has a board, but what function the board plays in the team I'm sure is somewhat different team to team. Regardless, they all have someone to 'answer' to, whether it be a board or someone's personal 'neck in the noose'. MB have given Ross Brawn Carte Blanche to build MB's team, and build it he has, to a massive size with massive names working for them, this is not a money thing, this is a win thing. Honda/Toy/BMW didn't do it right as they just plain didn't have the right people, Honda eventually got it right though with BGP001 of course but reaped zero of those benefits. That car was all Ross Brawn influence. Red Bull GmbH who have a massive amount on the line even though they remain a private company. The amount of cash Red Bull have sunk into Red Bull to make them world champions to this day has not been recovered, of this I have zero doubt. Red Bull as a company are not worth nearly the juggernaut amounts Daimler are worth. Red Bull is currently worth around $4 billion but with the energy drink market blossoming as it has been with brands such as Monster and Rock Star it would not at all surprise me if Red Bull's 70% market share were dessimated and Red Bull get purchased by Coca Cola in the near future, then bye bye racing team. Didi has every reason in the world to hold a pointy object to his F1 team's collective heads because it's his company directly on the line. That IMO is far more terrifying than anything any board is going to say.