Wierd 360 F1 Clutch - help?

I'm considering purchasing a 2001 360 Spider F1. It was delivered to the UK, then delivered to Australia. I've personally spoken with the UK companies that serviced this car and have verified the service details. I don't have a driver/owner history. I have a concern with the clutch and would greatly appreciated any advice.

CLUTCH replaced at 45 084 Klms (28178 miles) and again 18 months later at 48798 Klms (30499 miles), now at 51358 Klms (32098 miles) - it's 49% according to Ferrari ??

This seems to indicate that the first clutch lasted 45 084 K's (about average?) BUT, it then wore out a total clutch in 3700 K's (between 45 084 & 48798 Klms)
And now the clutch is 49% after an additional 2587 K's (between 48798 & 51358 Klms)

I can only think of 3 possibilities
(1.) The car has developed a real problem with clutch usage after the initial clutch was replaced - poor workmanship?
(2.) The car changed hands and the new driver was very heavy on the clutch
(3.) The speedo has been wound back - twice?
Any advice greatly appreciated

 

hi mate,

it really depends on how the car is used. I think the previous owner might have used the car in heavy traffic conditions (stop and go) and that's where the clutch gets worn the most...

There is a very quick way to burn the clutch... reverse on an inclined hill when the car is cold...

Where about are you? If you are in Melbourne, I can recommend a very good techician to you... Best of luck!

cheers,

richie

 

Brissie mate- car in Sydney at present. Any reliable tech contact appreciated. Cheers

 

Since the MY2001, there have been a number of software updates which theoretically can improve clutch life.

You might want to research the software version on this car.

 

Who replaced the clutch? It is very easy to reduce life to nothing if a few unusual procedures, peculiar to the F1 are not followed. If it is not a Ferrari specialist very knowledgeable with the 360 and they do not have an SD2 or 3 and very familiar with its correct use (few are) it will just not be correct.

 

2004 Service at 45084 klms / 28178 miles HR Owen Sports Cars UK Clutch & Fly Wheel Replaced.

2006 Service at 48798 klms/30499 miles Lancaster UK Suspension Ball joints
Gear Box actuator
Cam belts
Clutch replaced
Front and Rear Pads & Rotors

I can't understand that it is possible to wear out a clutch even an F1 in 3700 klm/ 2300 miles - unless there is a significant mechanical or software issue. This is my first Ferrari, but I've read a fair amount - happy to be proven wrong though

 

maybe that car wad used all time in a race track

 

vegas,

not too sure if you have been to aussieexotics forum... because someone has asked a similar question as you did... and here is the response to his question by Phil Hughes (one of ferrari specialists in the country)...

------
Each state only has one Approved Ferrari repairer.

if you mean "who is capable and able and cost effective to work on a 360"?

Then contact Automotion, Chris Jordan (and co.) in Brisbane city area. 0402 434 345

Or Mark Jones, who's out of town, North a bit. 0417 776216

If you specifically need SD2 access, it may be tricky.
------

hope it helps!

cheers,

richie

 

Most likely, it was the exchange owner, the first owner knew the car without using the Clutch haze, but when the owner lived in a garage that has ramp, that would change much at the statistics.
Or leave the car, with the Clutch cold, it makes it take too long to''hold''and is to spend more. It can be an owner who does not know how to use the car. Judie car.

 

I don't know very much about the F1 clutch system, but if I had to wager a guess, I would say they might need to properly set the PIS (point of initial slippage). If this isn't done when installing a new clutch, it could produce all sorts of problems. The other thing is how you drive and if you often have to reverse up an incline and/or allow the car to idle at a stop in gear for a long duration (especially on anything but level ground). Again, I'm no expert, but I believe the above information is fairly accurate as it relates to clutch wear in the F1 system.

I think that the early cars also have an upgrade to the transmission controller don't they? Since the year in question is 2001, you might check into that and see. Brian would know a lot more than I do. My 360 was a manual gear box, so I know very little about the F1 system (mainly just bits and pieces of information I have picked up off this forum). However, on my car I always made it a point to take the car out of gear at a stop and keep my foot off the clutch. You can probably duplicate this same thing using the F1.

Ray

 

If your looking at a 360 and are concerned about the cost of replacing the clutch..then no offence..pass on that car, or a Ferrari with the F1 system altogether. They are very costly to repair if anything goes wrong, and you must have a shop within a reasonable distance to be able to service and correct its issues the first time.

3 pedals and a gated shifter is the way to go with this model.

 

Thanks for all the advice and views all much appreciated.

I have the car in for a Clutch examination with Ferrari next week, and have put together a comprehensive list of information that people have kindly provided in this and other forums.
I also have another Technician (ex-Ferrari, now working in another workshop) who will examine the car after Ferrari if they don't find any problem with it ( second opinion won't hurt anything except my wallet!)

I know the replacement of clutches is expensive and have budgeted to replace it in about 12 months ($8,000 AUD), but I'd like to get more than 5000 Klms (3125 miles) out the existing one.

I'll advise the forum of what if anything is revealed next week, (may save someone $)- In the meantime keep any views opinions coming. Cheers

 

Sounds to me that along with a clutch replacement you also need a new trans control module. If the wear degree is too high in the control unit it can just burn through clutches

 

Exactly, this may be one of the problems as well. Tell me one thing, as has the life of your clutch?

 

It is not only the clutch by itself, you need to check the flywheel, the release bearing and its support and I will say the magnet just to be sure all is in a good shape. You won't like to pay again to take that tranny out!!

 

So if the flywheel is faulty will damage the clutch too?

 

The clutch disc is pressed between the surface of the flywheel and the surface of the pressure plate. Both of those faces need to be in good condition, or you can end up with less than ideal mating and/or engagement as far as the clutch disc is concerned. Keep in mind, heat is not your friend when the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate are concerned - and heat is generated via friction. So if there is something which is causing the clutch to slip excessively, that can build up heat and accelerate wear. Also, if the face of any of those surfaces becomes burnt, that can feed on itself and things can go down hill more rapidly. Keep in mind also, too much slipping between the clutch and flywheel/pressure plate surfaces can have a polishing effect on the surfaces. In fact, this can get so bad that the clutch disc can actually allow the flywheel/pressure plate to spin around it when you give the car gas (the RPM's of the wheels and thus the clutch disc remain constant).

The bottom line is that if the flywheel surface is not in good shape, it can result in problems.

Ray

 

do you have any SD2 printouts yet?? more specifically the parameters??

 

I'll have them on (Wed 9 Dec) next week and if I purchase, it'll be serviced, cam belts the works.

 

The print out will be meaningless if the prior installation was incorrectly done.


Thats the funny thing about computers.....Garbage in.........Garbage out.

 

Translation: your gear box doesn't own a micrometer

Ray

 

Thanks Ray, for information about Flywheel.

 

Im not looking for the clutch wear percentage or millimeters of clutch worn --- But I am look for the clutch wear degree in the TCU if its above 15000 you will most likely need a new TCU b/c on a 360 you cannot reset it

 

I can vouch for good service from Automotion as well.

 

+1.
This car is an '01 which means it will have the crappy early T.C.U. You can't really adjust P.I.S directly, and i've seen occasions where new clutches have been installed and the tech has just done an auto-set and left it at that. If it's too high it will trash the clutch very quickly. You can alter it by adjusting the new closed clutch position to bring the PIS down, or fit the later TCU which is much better and gets rid of the annoying clutch overheat buzzer going off every four seconds!