© 2021 MOTORSPORT NETWORK. All rights reserved.
Sign up to receive latest updates for Ferrari News, Threads, and Classifieds
Discussion in '360/430' started by secondsole, Dec 27, 2017.
I disagree but hope you are right. Bring on the dirt cheap Duesenbergs, Ferrari's/etc. Can't wait!
To remove this ad click here.
Quick! Sell it!!
360s with stick can be bought pretty cheap these days. What’s your price range?
Everyone else will be in their autonomous driving electric Chevrolet Revolt.
The real enthusiasts will cherish a stick.
The gap between manual and F1 may go a bit lower but I think its a temporary dip.
I would not get an early 360 because of the talked about frame issues.
Why not both ?
Do you enjoy rowing a stick ?
Then buy one.
Both for your enjoyment AND for future appreciation.
If I were getting an "automatic" the 430 Scud is where I'd be looking. A special limited production race car for the street. The gap is really not that big between a scud and an F1 430 for what a scud represents.
Here’s a question.. and no judgement at all intended... What do they do (job)?
I think this is exactly right. It's so different now. Getting a driver's license isn't what it use to be. Tesla is now the Ferrari for people under 30.
It wouldn't surprise me if in the future if people were no longer allowed to drive cars on pubic roads. The government mandating autonomous vehicles. Most traffic, accidents, road fatalities are all caused by human drivers.
On second thought though.. my cars do get a lot of attention from younger people when I have them out. So somebody cares... I hope.
Not sure if it will hold it's value but it will be worth more than F1 for sure.
Every generation has non-car guys and girls. The best compliment I got on my 456M was a girl who looked to be about 10 (And looked like a tomboy). "That's the most beautiful car I've ever seen!"
Her mom looked embarrassed.
With an F1 transmission you are entering a technology race with other new better F1 transmissions. With a manual transmission the driver is likely the bottleneck. Driving a manual transmission Ferrari is something I do for fun on the weekends. I would never daily drive it. So for me, manual transmission cars have an advantage in weekend fun. They fully engage the driver making low speed driving fun. I like F1 cars as well, and wouldn't turn one down, but as a city dweller with only three parking spaces, I have to think carefully about what I decide to put in them. One of those spaces will always be a manual transmission car. Buy the car you enjoy driving the most. If an F1 is more fun than a stick, then go for it. No matter what Ferrari you buy, you'll learn to love and hate it simultaneously. They are like owning difficult pets.
I owned a 2005 gated manual F430 and unwisely sold it just before the rapid uptick in values. I definitely wish that I still owned it. I'm 50 years old and used to be a diehard manual transmission proponent.
However, I was never as proficient in quick heel-and-toe downshifts with the F430 as I am with my 1997 Porsche 993TT or Spec Miata race car. After now owning three dual clutch modern Ferraris and racing a paddle-shift 2017 Radical SR3 RSX, I don't really misss the gated manual simply because it is so much slower.
The gated manual F430's and 360's should still command a modest premium because they are the last of a breed, and the single-clutch F1 transmissions left something to be desired. But, for me personally, the incredible performance of the dual clutch in our FF, F12, and 488 significantly lessens my nostalgia for the F430. And, the GTC4 Lusso and 812 are even better with the 30-40% quicker shifts. I think this could partially limit the price appreciation of the manual F430's. If the Scuderia or 16M had come with a manual option, those could have some legitimate appreciation potential.
It is true that modern dual clutch F1 transmissions are amazing... Very fast and reliable... But you are missing the point : If it is about fast lap times, the F1 kills the manual transmission... Also in urban stop and go traffic an automatic transmission will kill any manual transmission..
But, there is this special Sunday drive in twisty roads where you want to be 100% in control of the car, feel 100% involved and get 100% satisfaction from making the car go fast, rather than allowing electronics to take away the joy... This is where the manual gearbox excels !!
The same applies with electronics (traction control, cruise control, etc)... You want them off when you are enjoying the drive...
Therefore, since Ferrari no longer makes manual gearbox cars, those cars with manual gearbox will appreciate !!
P.S. The only driver assist systems required (in my opinion) are ABS (for safety reasons) and power steering (for low speed comfort)... But again that is simply my opinion..
I can actually say I agree with both of you. As I've mentioned before, I think the classic Ferrari market is both beautiful and insane. No way a 250 GTO is worth millions of dollars to me, because I buy them to drive them.
My 308 GTSi taught me that I could never be satisfied with the ergonomics and performance envelope of cars that old and older (And I'm sixty). They are slow as slugs and pigs in parking lots. Too uncivilized for me.
That's why I have a 360 stick now instead of the 612 F1/a I was originally shopping for. It's modern enough to be perfectly civilized, and the performance envelope makes me swear to holy excrement.
I see manual 360's and 430's becoming like the current classic Ferrari market to future enthusiasts. "I'm sure glad people love them and preserve them, but I have no desire to go back so far as a manual transmission."
I think they will eventually be super valuable, long after I'm driving the pluperfect performance car in the sky.
Audi R8 V10 manual? Do they make one with manual?
Gen 1 did none for gen 2
MD355 and G. Pepper, I agree that it’s super fun to row through a traditional gated 6 speed manual on a beautiful weekend day. That is the reason why I owned the F430, and still own the 993TT 20 years after purchasing it.
I just think the modern Ferraris are even more fun, for me at least. I love the lightning fast dual clutch shifts and way that they make the car feel like a seamless extension of myself. In racing a Radical SR3 RSX through 2017, I never once wished that it had a stickshift. That may be the most fun I’ve ever had in any car, and the paddleshift gearchanges didn’t lessen the thrill of pulling nearly 3 G in corners and under braking.
Fun comes in a lot of shapes and sizes.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
“Fast dual clutch” is the key phrase here.
Same here but it's just a matter of prospective. If you or I had billions in the bank a 250 GTO would be worth millions to us just the same. Could drive it into the ground and rebuild it every 5 years and never lose money.
Never forget sitting in my father’s 330 watching him work the gears through bolt action. Have had several manual Fcars. Keeping my 430. Got beaten out of a 6spd 612 by minutes twice. No matter what the new ones do, they don’t do that. The value of the 6spd will only increase like the vetroresina 308s and other valued variants. As time goes on, the cheaper older six speeds will fall away with variable rates. The 60s and seventies Ferrari’s will escalate beyond mortal prices leaving the “affordable” 360and 430 six speeds as a rarer and more dear variant of the 360/430 community. No one knows really but that’s how I see it.
I too want a manual 612. Thinking of buying an F1/a and converting it.
Yes. It's an absolute beast. The aluminum gated shifter sounds like you are loading a gun. Go drive one. I love the old world charm of the gated 360 but the v10 R8 is next level brutality and the maintenance amounts to an oil change once in a while.
I learned to drive on a three on a tree, and yes I agree there are car people in every generation but the numbers are certainly shrinking with each generation. My girlfriend has two daughters (25, 16), and I was quite amazed at some of the comments (from them and their friends) about my cars, including "why would anyone want to drive a stick shift". To them driving is about getting somewhere, not the drive. They look at what a car looks like what features it has, and how much gas does it use (I just went car shopping for the 25 year old). I do not know how far into the future you are thinking but at some point rarer may not mean more valuable if the desire to grab the gearshift knob is not there. I have two manual cars (Evora 400 & 997S), and if a 430 Manual suddenly showed up at Algar, my phone would be ringing, but I will stick with my old 99 F1 (should be better as the CS TCU is installed) slow shifting car for now.
Millennial-city-dwelling person here to share my thoughts on this:
I had a lotus exige and aston martin vantage before, both manuals. I live in a city, no parking space (the car is stored out in the 'burbs), and spend 99% of my traveling time either on foot or on public transportation.
While stick shift has its fun, I just just don't have enough driving hours to get very good at heel-toe down shift. Now that it is winter, I maybe drive 1 hour in total the last two months when I visited home and needed to take the dog out to the park.
When I do go for a drive for fun when its nice out, I want to have ridiculous downshifts and those ferrari-esque throttle blips. So F1 checks all the boxes.