Will boxer prices push up tr prices now ?

It's inevitable. TRs are the last of the midengine flat 12s -- until F makes a new one. Love the motor on those cars. 4v and Motronic means a lot room for tinkering without "obvious" changes.

 

I don't know -- early Testarossas are priced very low compared to their V8 stablemate 328 (i.e., for another $5K-$10K over a 328 you can buy a car with an MSRP that was far more than the $70K of a 328 in 1987.)

I think the potential repair expense is way out of the line with the price, and the styling seems to appeal more to us hardcore Ferrari types than to the general affluent guy just looking for something more interesting than a Porsche.

Probably what the TR market needs is for guys like me, with 3x8s and familiar with Ferrari ownership, to take the plunge. I decided it wasn't worth it.

It may be inevitable over a very long period of time, but I don't think Boxer prices are going to push them up. There are something like 7000 Testarossas, IIRC, whereas the Boxer was a grey market car that never made it to the States in significant numbers.

The TRs have to wake up the market on their own merits, and they're not there yet. 512TRs, IMO, are to the TR what the 328 was to the 308 -- Ferrari reworked the entire car making everything a bit better based on mistakes made with the TR. Nostalgia for the single mirror isn't enough to keep people flocking to early run TRs. If I really had to try out a V12 at some point after the 328, I'd step up to the 512TR and not laterally to the TR. My two lira...

 

My bad; I was combining all variants together. Clearly the F512M is a rare hotrod and the 512TR has more refinement than the TR.

Another thread discussed the trend of TR owners to "sell quickly," leading to a buyer's market. If all TR owners just didn't sell the cars, the price would go up quickly because I think the demand is still there. There are fewer Boxers, yes, but even fewer people selling them. Only (387 + 929 + 1007 = 2323) were built, only 50% made it to the USA (need confirmation on this), and 86 of them are here on fchat. That's a tight market....

 

TR's are going to stay right where they are for a while. To many of them around, and they are an expensive car to fix relative to what you can buy one for. When it was a 300k car the repairs would seem worth it to do, but now if anything major breaks on them (gearbox for example) its almost worth it to buy another, and save the broken one for parts and use its engine for a coffee table.

The performance of the car is also a bit of a disappointment aswell when compared to more modern cars for the same price. (which in most cases are brand new with a full factory warranty). Big and heavy and cumbersome to drive around town are characteristics that most buyers will not put up with when they are used to easily zipping around town in their BMW's, regardless of the name on the hood.

But nothing has the look of a TR blasting down the highway. An amazing sight to behold indeed. Its just too bad that when your behind the wheel, you don't see what others do.

 

I to believe that the TR is at it's bottom right now and will only go up from here.
The TR is indeed a rare breed (even with 7k made), it is the last of an era where the 12 dominated. Yes they are expensive to repair (trust me I know), but in the end, the TR was the dream car for many .... and those people will be coming of age soon enough where they have enough money to own one. I will predict that as the stock markets stabilize and the housing market recovers ... these car will start the rise in value ... within a year or so. 5-10 years from now ... you'll be wishing that you kept that old TR as an investment. Wishfull thinking? maybe, but wishfull thinking made me keep my 1968 shelby gt 500 KR ... which ended up paying off my house! In the end ... they do not make TR's any more ... and the TR defined the supercar for the 80's ... with the prices down right now, they will get bought up ... and stored. Just think, is 7000 cars really that many?

 

And of the 7000 made, I wonder how many are no longer with us...

 

I have a 328 and a a 91 TR , I have been using the 328 as a daily driver this week (65 miles each way to work) and i took the TR for a spin yesterday and I can assure you there is nothing lateral about the 2.

 

Was that 7000 world wide or US? They can't be any more expensive to keep up than a BB can they? I'll bet at least 25% of them are gone. Based on the reaction from the thritysomethings I get when I drive my 85 TR , there is going to be a lot of interest in these cars in the coming years.

 

I don't see TR prices going anywhere (+ or -) because of Boxer prices. Each TR will speak for itself individually, pricewise. A beaten, unmaintained, pre 88.5 TR will not be worth anymore because of Boxer prices, and it won't sell for more $$ (unless you find a sucker who didn't do any research). Same rule applies for 88.5 - 91 TR's, each one will speak for itself, pricewise, depending on condition.

And then there are the maintenance and potential repair costs, that are bound to scare some away from purchasing a TR. Buying one is enough of a financial commitment. Maintaining it (factor in fuel @ $3.00 + per gallon) is another financial commitment.

Don't get me wrong, fellas !!! I miss my '91 TR, and will always have an appreciation for the TR !!!

 

Agreed; I think you are right on the money on this one. If anything, TR prices have generally stopped the backslide and are firming up. The 1st indication is that late TR's are getting more expensive and those earlier model "deals" are disappearing. Good cars are holding value and maybe even going up in certain cases where they were downwardly affected by poorer condition bretheren. This is esp. for the 85-87 cars. Yes, they are expensive to fix, but come on, they're the last of the mid-12's. If I had the garage space, I'd think about one even if they drive like a slammed P/U truck!

 

I do not think the cost of ownership has any bearing on resale, however a Boxer will be much cheaper to maintain than a TR....where a Boxer has a toggle switch for the heater fans, a TR has a reostat that failed constantly when new and cost $200 20 years ago. How much are the pushbutton switches in the roof console? Or the servo motors for the HVAC where the Boxer has cables? Ever price out a lock set for a TR?

Just think about the amount of money that has been spent on the slave cylinder setup for the clutch on TR's.....or, for North America the seatbelts.

TR's were a huge step forward for Ferrari in terms of production specific parts that were expensive 20 years ago (and not terribly reliable) and will be difficult to source in the future.

Boxer's were much cruder, but in a way that makes them easier to maintain and fabricating pieces will be easier in the future.

With the exception of the A/C I personally think a Boxer is a more enjoyable car to drive, lighter steering and better low end torque.

I've worked on both, and have spent plenty of driving time in each.

While TR's have many advocates here, I think many people regard them as White EuroTrash 1980's excess and I have a difficult time ever seeing them climb from the abyess they (rapidly) fell into.


But hey, I turned down a decent 250PF coupe in 1985 for $6,000.....

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Keith Martin seems to feel the same way. FWIW, I think it's a work of art. Ostentatious, but audacious and unique -- ultimately I think they'll be sought after, but the Boxer crowd seems to be after something different.

'Lateral' in terms of development cycle, each being the major refinement of a theme: the 512TR tweaked the TR's looks and improved its mechanicals. Ditto the 328 for the 308: similar design, better built. Not lateral in terms of price or horsepower. The 550 and 348 marked new chapters.

 

interesting thread

i think the testarossa's will go up in value from here, even though they made alot of them, nice ones will go up...they hit bottom a couple years ago

i gotta admit though, i drove my first testarossa about a year ago (not mine, friend of mines) and it amazes me the torque it has....it pulled like a muther#$%@^
and
i've driven a 360, and the testarossa seems to throw you back in your seat harder

12 cyl. power is un-comparable in a way

made a believer out of me

 

Well at least we all seem to agree that the prices for the TR's seem to have bottomed out ... where we disagree is will they go up or just maintain? I personally and thinking they'll go up as the 80's generation comes of age/money ... and that mid life crisis combine with a good economy allows them to live in the past.

 

30 years seems to be the rule of thumb for collectible cars. I think the TR has bottomed but not sure they will climb soon but who would know anyway? Time will tell and they are a great bargin, at least I think so, well underpriced.

 

Yep, testarossa's suk .

They will never go up in value. Crappy seating position, expensive parts, drive like a truck, maintenance is a bear, they are ugly. Impractical. Parts cars really... Look like a slut laying on her side...

Oh, and don't get me started on Countaches. Kit cars really. Airconditioning doesn't work. Dent if you look at them wrong. Parts need to be manufactured by God Himself, and clutches last an afternoon... Geesh. A nissan will out corner it...

Flash back to the year 2000 or so: Obviously, countach prices will never go above $50,000. Its a piece-o-crap. I have yet to see a good magazine review of this car...

Now, let me go out and buy one:

Hey, what happened?! 4-7 years ago their were several listed for $60-70,000. Hmmm. Odd, they seem to be gone. And some genius is now asking $135,000. Hmmm....

Yep. Countaches will never go up in value. Neither will testarossa's...who wants one?







ps. If you find a countach for 60-70,000$ let me know...I want 2 .

 

Do Boxers have a weak tranny/diff issue?? I haven't heard of that, yet there is the dreaded tranny/diff issue with TR's. And when that happens, you're looking at a $20k repair bill.

 

I think the 512 diff is no stronger than the TR, but the motor doesn't make as much power, so it is going to be more reliable.

Cost of maintenance does not seem to have any effect on sale price, not when things start to go north of 100k.

Ergonomics and comfort have no effect. I found the 512BB seating position horrible. Performance matters little. The newer cars are always faster.

It's a bit like the stock market. Things get hot when they get hot. People will spend 80k on a TR if they think they will sell it in 2 years for 100k. And they will pay 150k if they think they might get 180 later. But they are not going to spend 60K if they think it might go down. There's otherwise little logic to it all, as far as I can tell.

 

I think the TR is brilliant, I have driven 2 and one 512 TR and I can tell you I think they are incredible. The looks? I also think they are incredible one of the salespeople drove up a black one with tan interior for me to drive and I almost fell over the car was so beautiful. YES my opinion as I am 33 and grew up thinking this was and I still do think it is the car. Also all the best mechanics around hear in the Boston area have never even seen or done a differential, do they fail? Yes they do but it’s not the common problem that people make it out to be. Are they expensive to fix? Yes but if you want expensive try a boat! I am going to be diving into a TR soon and I can’t wait I will budget for the major and pay for the things that come up. I feel the TR is one of the most beautiful exotic cars in the world, and when I hear the old timers say they are ugly and that they should have 12 cylinders in front and the Daytona 365 is beautiful I kind of laugh to myself as it reminds me of my parents saying rock and roll is bad, or apply that to any generational change(yes the 365 it’s beautiful but it is not what the millions of people in my generation consider beautiful, when people say the TR is dated and ugly I find that as the epitome of being narrow minded) .

I don’t know if they are going up in price, yeah good ones will… how many where imported? How many are still in good condition? But I do know they are awesome and a fair amount of people that see them on the road apparently think they are to, I can vividly recall every TR I ever saw on the street and they are ONE INCREDIBLE CAR!

Andrew Kelley

 

Ill take 2 as well!