Will Ferrari ever have an entry-level model again?

I respectfully disagree, with the advancement in prototype machines and 3d scanning making plastic pieces with a durable plastic is getting cheaper every year. All you need now is the original piece (broken or not) to be able to scan it into your computer for a prototype machine to replicate. Larger pieces can also be made by fusing smaller piece together. I use an older (5 years) SLS machine and the plastic is not that tough but the current generation ones make much sturdier pieces and 20 years from now who knows.

Now glass...thats a different question

 

entry level car... is a bean counter mentality, a marketing scam, an effort to sell to a greater market, decontent for a lower price on the perceived value of a marque, it only dilutes the brand, one only needs to look to "Detroit" to document what is has done to many badges

 

Ok --- try to make a turn signal switch with a 3D scanner. Not the plastic part -- the entire switch.

It's not a little knob or button that's going to be the problem. It's going to be things like cracked dashboard panel or broken switchgear that will be hard to find.

Go look at any Alfa spider and look at the dash and glovebox. You'll see the problem. Plastic changes over time. There's nothing you can really do about it.

 

Hmm guess the Porsche Speedster, boxster and Dino Ferrari diluted the marque.

 

Multi-material 3D printing systems are already in use - and the size of what they can print is getting bigger each day, so down the road, they will be able to print entire components, like the switch. As you stated earlier, possible, but not easy as it sounds. The technology will get there, it's just that the other industries need to get on-board so they can leverage the technology.

Check this out:

http://ebongeek.com/2011/07/10/the-worlds-first-multi-material-3d-printer/

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbRlDBScDz4[/ame]

 

Looks the be a very nice car. That said, one car doesnt make the market. I dont think thats a slam on 308s. Sure one that has had a nut and bolt 2 year long resto is worth more than one that hasnt, but that wasnt the point I was making anyway. My point is that its interesting what people percieve as valuable changes over time. Given the choice there are many people (as demonstrated by market price) who would choose a Dino over a 308, not that that makes the 308 a bad car. Along these same lines, I am given to understand that the 365 GTC/4 sold new for more than a Daytona, but is now worth far less.

YMMV

 

... and this

Jay Leno’s 3D Printer Replaces Rusty Old Parts

"Jay Leno has a lot of old cars with a lot of obsolete parts. When he needs to replace these parts, he skips the error-prone machinist and goes to his rapid prototyping 3D printer. Simply scan, print and repeat..."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/jay-leno/technology/4320759

 

+1

 

Entry level and affordability are relative terms. Ferrari has always been one of the most expensive car brands and their car prices were always well above "average" means. However, that has been obfuscated by inflation and used car market pricing.

The following charts show that Ferrari model range pricing was at about 2-3.5x median household income in the 1960's and 1970's, rose to about 2.5-5x in the 1980's, and has ranged from 3.5-6x US median household income in the "Montezemolo era". The 3x8 series were $130-200K cars in current dollars, while the California started at about $192K. These charts exclude the supercars and limited edition models. In 2010 dollars, the entry price has risen from $100K to about $200K. Median household income appears to have risen roughly proportional to CPI over that period (+/- 10 to 20%)
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They are the good examples. But at the same time, the Dino didnt wear the badge, so it was viewed as a lesser car. And the boxter is similar to me as the 944 series. Gets people in the door. You can buy a new Z06 for the price of a used 360, a new ZR1 for less than a 430, and have a faster car, but it is still a corvette and people are willing to pay the premium. As long as that mentallity exists, Ferrari doesnt need a 100k car. Boxters are nice, the S even better. Cayman too, but I dont think I've ever seen a poster for a Boxter...

 

First you question my numbers, then you dismiss them.

I said mint, Newman's 308 was mint. It sold for more than mint Panteras. It was a good example to back up my statement.

308's due to the production volumes are extremely easy to find, but like all cars there are mint ones, well maintained, average, below average and crap. Mint ones are rare and thus command more price, if you add in variations to the model (75-85 and 4 distinct variations) you further complicate the story.

A glass 308 is worth high 5's to low 6 figures now. It is a 308. But like a Dino it is currently value is being driven by rarity and lower production numbers then initial sticker price. Carburated 308's will probably soon see their value rise as well imho, but that is an opinion.

Again who knows, what I do know is your statement about Pantera's and Dino's and trying to equate them to 308 value was not comparing like to like.

 

Which car is the $370,000 anomaly at or near 1974?

Thanks in advance ,
David

 

I dismissed your numbers because mint isnt the point. I never said I was comparing mint to mint, you mentioned Newmans mint car. I see Panteras offered from 40s to 90s, so I called it 50. I see Dinos offered from 150s to 180s, and I see 308s offered from 20s to 60s. Am I rounding? Sure. Who cares. Its a simple observation that a Pantera commands 4 to 7 times its as new price, a Dino brings 7 to 10 times, and a 308 brings 1 to (at most, out of generosity) 3 times what it cost new. Of course all these numbers ignore inflation and were a simple, off hand observation on bdelps comment. It was never my intention to denigrate (your word) the 308. Relax friend, cars are a terrible investment financially anyway, go for a drive and dont worry about what its worth.

 

1973 365 GT4/BB. This model was not shipped into the US, so the high data point may represent the cost of federalization, a currency conversion anomaly (perhaps including VAT or something), or an error.

 

A perfect illustration of the earning disparity between medicine and architecture!

 

Tell me if I got your point. You're upset because you had to pay a $15.00 co pay to your doctor for saving your life when that money could have been used for another ferrari for your garage.

 

Agree. i feel in the future pre 1990 cars in general will be collectible or at least usable as they can be fixed.

All of this computer crap, though some of it is necessary is going to make many modern cars throw away / disposable.

i remember in 1982 when GM expanded on the 1981 changes, 17 digit VIN's, computer controlled carbs, leading to fuel injection. They many many thousands of those cars. None of them are wanted or valuable with but a few performance exceptions. Look at 1980-82 Ferrari's, less sought after for whatever reason than the earlier cars, or the later cars.

I want to go back and order a 288 GTO.

The 360 is neat, but i dont pine for them. Same for the jellybean 430. For the money i would get a Diablo Roadster.

308/328's may be at the same price point for some time, but i think they will become sought after for sheer fun, if not for collector value.

 

agree and disagree. Let me explain.

These new cars are full of trademarked, copyrighted, proprietary voodoo. i really dont think technicians or shade-tree types will be ALLOWED to make or sell anything for these cars, as Ferrari and the other intellectual owners WILL come after them and prevent any aftermarket parts , software and hardware.

This will simply kill off the cars, 20-30 years from now and make people buy new or recently used but still serviceable cars.


The simple stuff on Testarossas that guys are making and selling are already borderline.

Go messing with the insides of these black boxes, and i bet you will be greeted by lawyer types.

The answer is simple: guys like me will just buy and play with the older cars.


The pre 1990 stuff is simple, and messing with it does not step on anyone's toes.

But look at older aircraft avionics packages, and compare that headache to these older cars with 10 or 11 computers in them.

its going to get ugly.

 

The "used is the entry level" makes the most sense

 

You think cars in Europe/USA are expensive?

Try coming to Brazil.

I payed 380K brazilian reals (about 230K American Dollars)
for a 99 three-pedal F355 Berlietta!

Brand new Cali? 1.100K Reals (680K American Dollars)

458 Italia? 1.450K Reals (905K American Dollars)

Bugatti Veyron? 8.000K (5 Million Dollars)


God I wish I lived in Miami...

 

I assume this is due to taxes?

 

Probably the cheapest and most likely intended to be entry level was the Dino 246.

I can still recall in 1972 that the Dino listed around $13,500 while a comparable Porsche 911 was around $9,000. I believe that Corvettes ran about $6,500 at this time.

Entry level - yes, but only in the Ferrari sense of the word. And, at the time, they did not even put the Ferrari name on the Dino.

 

Total non issue. In P 4/5 C we replaced the entire factory Scud system with a plug and play Motec system and Bosch ABS/TC without any issue at at.

In the future it will be cheaper and easier. These systems are so good we were able to rewire the ABS after we got hit with a switch and continue on. Watch our 24 hour race video in P 4/5 C thread.

As for trim pieces etc. I can get anything made without issue.

As an aside by law anyone can make replacement auto parts period.

 

LOL, no you missed my point. I was just commenting to something Scott said earlier about price/age when the 308 was new. He got it.

 

With all due respect, the resources you have being WHO you are, and Whom you know, far outperform the abilities the "rest of us" have.

I imagine your name on an appointment schedule causes quite a stir on its own.

i do not see the normal used car Ferrari owner ( like myself) being able to do what you can, and have done.

Respectfully.