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Will I be happy with a 812 SF as a 458 owner

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Ngcanada, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. Ngcanada

    Ngcanada Karting

    May 16, 2016
    245
    Ottawa Canada
    Hi everyone, some of you know I have a 2015 458 Italia for about 4 years now and have been contemplating moving into possibly the last NA V12. I have been slowly trying to justify myself into wanting an 812 and my Ferrari dealer has two 2019 available with a pretty close spec to what I would do.
    I know there are many 812 owners here who have moved up from a 458 and was hoping to get some encouraging comments to push me over to the 812.
    From the best of you, will I be happy with the 812? I feel like it’s the next step up in Ferrari but I am worried that I will miss the rear engine V8. I would assume that the V12 should make me happy. I want to pull the trigger on one of those 812 at my dealer which are both late 2019 non gpf cars.
    I would line the likes of the multiple Ferrari owners to chime in or the ones who did made the same move. Looking forward to your comments.
    BTW, I drove an F8 and it was not for me and I cannot keep both 812 and 458, nor do I want to change brands at this time.


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  3. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Karting

    Jan 20, 2017
    232
    I can’t speak to the 812 SF for now (mine is incoming).

    I went from a 458 Italia to the F12. Initially, I was disappointed with the additional sound insulation and a different engine/exhaust sound. However, after some miles, I became a huge fan of the F12. The lighter and more agile dynamic of the rear-mid V8 is great. Stupidly, I traded my F12 for a 488 GTB. That was a mistake for me. I then took a break from Ferrari.

    Since I have an 812 SF incoming, I’m on the V12 side of the fence. Last V12 or not, there isn’t another car that offers the front-mid V12 experience of the F12 and I missed it tremendously. So I had to have another front-mid V12.

    If you can’t have both, you’ll have to answer for yourself which side of the fence you prefer. 458 and F12 are very special cars and are different enough to potentially disappoint.
     
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  4. 575joe

    575joe Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    275
    I have simultaneously owned (still own) an 812 and 458.
    Both are great cars.
    The way I try to answer which I like better, is to ask myself if I could only keep one, which would it be?
    The 812 is always the one I’d keep.
    But can’t go wrong either way.
    I’m now in the process of choosing between keeping my 458 and my F8 Spider that arrived 2 days ago.
    That is a tougher choice.
     
  5. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2020
    353
    Full Name:
    Stew
    I was thinking 458 or 812 when I decided I would get a Ferrari. Went with the 812 since I enjoy GT driving a lot and don’t have any plans on tracking. Drove the 458 and 812 back to back and both were phenomenal. The 812 is significantly faster feeling, and in my opinion sounds better. They are both great sounding cars, but that V12 sound is just so good and rare. I think the 458 has slightly better handling characteristics but the 812 is no slouch. 812 felt better in ‘normal driving’. You should go test drive one and see how it feels.

    I liked the 458 enough that I’m waiting for the perfect spec to come for sale, and I’ll probably get one as well.
     
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  6. ChrisDiRe

    ChrisDiRe Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2004
    191
    Buffalo, NY
    Full Name:
    Chris DiRe
    I’ve had a 458. Then I got a 488. And now I’ve got a 812.

    Biggest regret I ever made was getting rid of the 458.

    I’m thrilled with my 812, but it really is a totally different experience than a mid engine car.

    My advice is to not make any decisions until you drive the 812.
     
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  8. Ngcanada

    Ngcanada Karting

    May 16, 2016
    245
    Ottawa Canada
    Thanks for the replies so far.....but there are many other forum stars here who have great experience of owning both that I would love to chime in....but so far, this is great stuff.
    Where I am is the winter months, so test driving is a no go. I have the fear that if Ferrari announces that there is no more NA V12 that I may lose the opportunity to grab a late model 812....what do they call that FOMO (fear of missing out)
     
  9. Ngcanada

    Ngcanada Karting

    May 16, 2016
    245
    Ottawa Canada
    What is it exactly that you missed of the 458 that the 812 lacks?
     
  10. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,801
    My own guess is they will continue the NA V12 for a while more but it likely at some point gets some help from hybrid.

    I think its critical for you to get a test drive- and make it a few hours at least and I would try not to get blown away by the power- because it is incredible. And the sound is amazing also.

    The 458 needs to be worked harder to get at its power and also it can’t match the power of the 812. And frankly I don’t think the V8 sound is anywhere up to the V12. And I am more of a V12 person. But, there was something about the 812 that never quite gelled for me, so I think you should go drive one and then see.

    For me the 458 brings it all together perfectly (I should say Ive gone with Novitec springs to firm up the suspension) whereas I felt the 812 wasn’t (quite) as endearing.

    If you do go with an 812, make sure you get it aligned.


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  11. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2016
    378
    Had a 458 spider which I loved then went for a 488 spider which was a let down frankly despite the higher power output.
    When I switched to the 812, I have since been in nirvana- it has it all- looks, speed, agility, sound, comfort. The only thing it lacks for me is a drop top but my prayers have been answered- my GTS will be here in the spring!


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  13. MikeS

    MikeS Karting

    Nov 21, 2003
    131
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Mike S
    Very tough question to address. I have owned a 360, 430, 458, 458 Speciale and now an 812. I traded the Speciale for the 812 as I was seeking more comfort and luxury, and I loved the 812 lines and v12-maybe the end of the traditional v12 as we know. I miss the Speciale, lots of track miles, it was bullet proof. I do not regret the 812 at all. Versus the mainline mid engines, it depends on your use. If you want a touring car for longer rides, bit quieter and more comfortable, go 812. It’s plenty sexy, fast and the v12 is killer. My only complaint is the car is twitchy, over responds to steering input. It is also is not a track day car imo, I have done it. If you want a really sporty, tossable ride with occasional track use, go 458. I also think a 458 will depreciate less. You can’t go wrong either way. On the margin I would go 458, even 488. I think the 488 is less loved for the wrong reasons. I agree with a lot of the posts here- go for a long drive.


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  14. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
    9,801
    Mike, get your aligned, it helps with the twitchiness, I’d also recommend if you have the Pirelli tires to change to the Michelin 4S- they are now available in 812 sizes I believe.


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  15. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
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    Apr 10, 2020
    353
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    Stew
    Have it aligned at the dealer to factory specs, or is there a different spec that is being recommended?

    Also, yes the Pirellis are not good on the 812. Currently on all seasons by my second set of wheels has Michelin’s ready to go for spring/summer. Hated the pirellis even on nice warm days.
     
  16. MidnightRun

    MidnightRun Karting

    Nov 4, 2006
    133
    Whether a transition to an 812 is right for you depends on what you value in vehicle dynamics and what you hope to achieve. A 458 is telepathic; you think it and the car does it. As I progressively grew in my ability and comfort with the 458, I ran the canyons with decreasing electronic assistance ... sport to race, then CST off, and finally, with everything off. When I reached the point where I could comfortably run the tightest twisties at breakneck speed, I had outgrown the car. I craved something more challenging, something that had the capacity to scare me. The 812 fills that bill. The 812 is well balanced and will hold the road. But, it is NOT a telepathic car. At speed in the twisties, this car demands your full attention and a careful hand. It's electrifying, if not a bit terrifying. At this point in my learning curve with the 812, I don't know if I'll ever attempt the canyons at speed with CST off. Yes, the car is THAT engaging, that exhilarating.

    If your 458 no longer provides sufficient juice and you crave an electrifying experience, go for an 812. Conversely, if you value/treasure the telepathy of the 458 but want something faster, go for a 488 or F8. That's my two cents.
     
  17. xBox

    xBox Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2018
    395
    The Emerald Isle
    Could you guys catch me up a little on this please. I've had my 812 for 6-weeks and now entering freezing temps and winter for 2-months.

    Definitely a little twitchy and likes to tramline on poor surfaces.

    What can I hope to achieve with a switch to 4S's and is the alignment a non-factory spec?
     
  18. xBox

    xBox Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2018
    395
    The Emerald Isle
    Exactly what I thought after some time to reflect on my 812 test drive.

    The v8's performance, an F8 in my case, is just so accessible in comparison.

    ... and the sound of that mighty v12 :rolleyes:
     
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  19. Mighty Joe

    Mighty Joe Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2010
    1,111
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    I went to the 488. Its an amazing car. I had a 458 keep up with me almost to 2nd gear one time! LOL
     
  20. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2016
    378
    Any temps below 50 degrees severely affects both Pirellis and Michelin- they are summer high performance tires that turn into hard slabs at low temps. Have your dealer put proper winter performance tires on the car- you’ll think it’s the middle of summer driving them- and they usually store the summer tires for you. You won’t regret it


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  21. MikeS

    MikeS Karting

    Nov 21, 2003
    131
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Mike S
    Thanks for the tip off, will do.


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  22. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
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    Apr 10, 2020
    353
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    Stew
    Like was said above, the pirellis don’t like to be below 50 degrees ambient. They are just really hard, and therefore not very grippy. I switched over to continental DWS06 for the winter, and have enjoyed them a lot. We had a dry December, but it’s been very wet the past week or so, and they have been great in the rain/wet.

    Switching to a proper winter/all season will make a big difference.
     
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  23. bakes17

    bakes17 Karting

    Sep 25, 2012
    75
    UK
    I’ve owned my 458 Speciale for 5 years, have a Pista Piloti, F40, raced a 488 challenge and was a die hard mid engine fan.
    Then I owned an 812SF and I was in love. The surprising thing is how the engine has such low inertia. It revs so quick and hard and the throttle response is immediate. The sound is other worldly. Much better than 458.
    Didn’t like F12 much tbh. 812 vast improvement IMO.

    You won’t feel short changed coming from an Italia. And you only live once. If you get one and prefer the V8, just go get another.

    I’ve now got an 812GTS and although it has the GPF it still sounds great.


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  24. junc

    junc Formula Junior
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    Aug 2, 2007
    434
    Chicago/Laguna Beach
    Full Name:
    Jun
    I currently have a 458 Speciale, Pista, 812 SF and 812 GTS. Ive also had the 458 Italia and spider. To me the 812 is a clear winner. Everyone should own a Ferrari v12 at some point because it wont be around forever. The one in the 812 is a masterpiece that revs to 8900 rpm and has 227 more hp than the 458. It also sounds absolutely incredible.

    However in the end only you can answer the question by test driving the 812 and deciding what you truly want.
     
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  25. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,801
    Re alignment, have the dealer set the alignment to factory specs. In general the Michelin is just a better tire. Winter tires for the winter for sure.
     
  26. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
    10,803
    FL and NC
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    I’ve had a 458 Italia and now have a 458 Spider, 16M, Speciale and traded my F12 for a ‘19 812SF. I have many tens of thousands of miles of seat time between them all (nearly 100K miles).
    I put an offer on a house recently and because of the garage space would have had to only keep 2 cars—the two were going to be the Speciale and the 812 (actually thankfully the deal didn’t materialize and get to keep all my cars! :)).
    The 812 is sublime, it is epic...the mid-engined cars make you feel like a superhero—the 812 let’s you be BOTH Bruce Wayne and Batman whenever you want.
    If you are a tifosi and haven’t owned a Ferrari V12 IMO you must before you die.
     
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  27. JesseRohr

    JesseRohr Karting
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    Dec 27, 2020
    63
    Birmingham AL
    Full Name:
    Jesse Rohr
    Subscribing as a potential entrant into the Ferrari world from Lamborghini. Currently I have an AWD EVO Huracan which I adore, but I'm bored with it as I've had a few in a row. My other toy is a 991.2 GT3 RS which satisfies my rear/mid engine itch and track duty so I've been tossing back and forth between 2019 488 cars (super good deals), 812 and F8 (paying premium).

    I've only driven a handful of V12 Ferrari cars and they were all awesome but I've never had to live with one.
     
  28. Ngcanada

    Ngcanada Karting

    May 16, 2016
    245
    Ottawa Canada
    Wow, the responses are so appreciated by you who have the experience of both cars and really am thankful that you guys are chiming in with your opinions and advice. I am really starting to lean towards the move.


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