We knew the knives were going to come out quickly... I don't think ANY of us saw MS struggling to compete with backmarkers in our wildest dreams... As others have said it is painful to watch and it is indeed very hard to argue in his favor since his teammate has beaten him in qualifying and race conditions every single race to this point. I am hoping he turns the corner quickly, but rain races were his trump card. and if he can't prevail in the rain then it certainly looks very difficult for him... I really don't know what to say, except that it is indeed looking like a mistake that he came back. 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 races, but a quarter of the way through the season and being outdriven at EVERY race has got to be very depressing for a great champion. I believe many of us wanted to at least see him do well and be one of the front runners, but it looks as if that level of performance is beyond MS's ability at this time (many of us hope he raises his game quickly!) Frank
IMHO, he's still adjusting and adapting to the 2010 car. He's definitely not liking the understeer characteristics of the car. He'll definitely won't be the WDC this year, however, i do see him winning 3-4 races.
Dreaming ... MS's comments about his performance at China were not at all of a man happy with himself. Thus I don't think he's having fun anymore, infact I would bet there was no partying after this race. This keeps up MS will very soon think "why am I bothering" ... which is what he should have thought before he came back. Pete
That's an idiotic comparison. Average qualifying position or Q2 margin with smart allowances made from non-Q2 finishes (and other outliers) are much more intelligent from comparisons regarding driver speed. Here is my post in another current thread: Rosberg in no way was superior to Webber in his rookie season. One can make the contention that the relative pace between the drivers has switched (and Rosberg is now faster than Webber, which I do not agree with), but there is no reason to think in 2006 that it wasn't as one-sided as the stats I presented.
It is a good stat that shows the all out speed differential between two drivers in supposedly equal but back/mid grid cars. Points dont show the quality of the driver only finishing position which varies to DNF but most especially to quality of the car. Cars win WDC's. If you judge a driver by season points alone you miss the point. But it is a very easy stat to comprehend so it gets the most favor here. Like WDC's. Williams in 06 hardly ever made in to Q3. Many times did not advance to Q2. Sure the Ferrari's and Mclarens can screw around in Q1 and Q2 often, but for the Williams (in 06) Force Indias, Lotus's, (now) etc Q1 is do or die. Believe me they are all out.
I dont think you have the capacity to understand the point. For you; look at points. You can handle that. That and press releases.
OK, so now you are thinking like a team manager. Your logic is somewhat persuasive. But, why should you/we stop there? Why can't we handicap every person on the team; their skills, education, Wonderlic test results, IQ, their relationship skills, on and on........then we would have an even better evaluation of a team's driver's relative performance, yes? It all gets a bit silly; where do you stop? While points earned may be superficial(it especially seems so in an era where rules are everchanging), those are the rules that determine who wins....and loses, oftentimes. It is ever thus.
Its not the first time this has happened to Michael. One of the good things about Michael is how he can bounce back pretty quickly. It happened to him when Montoya beat him at Brazil back in 2001, when Montoya was a rookie. It happened to him when Hakkinen made the amazing pass on him at Belgium and I am sure there have been several other times when he was completely embarrassed about his driving. But that has never stopped him from winning a championship, if anything its made him stronger. I am sure Michael is not one bit discourage after this weekend. I would only think he would be is if he had been driving for the last 3 years.
I hate to admit it, but I'm loosing faith. I was all for his comeback, had realistic expectations, and defended him after his first 2 races. I thought it early to rule him out when others started judging. The next 2 races... I gave him a pass. But this last race is hard to defend... the radio chatter alone seemed degrading. I think his comeents indicate for the first time, he feels a sense of deserved criticism. Where before (first 4 races) he seemed happy with how things were going, he's visibly troubled by this last race and righfully so. Didn't his car even have the benefit of (f-duct esque) upgrades that Nico's didn't? I've been of the opinion that his mindset lacked hunger and perhaps this will be the push he so desperatly needs... and he does need something. Nico's been placing the car quite well in qual and races... it may not be the best, but Nico apprears to be more "Schumi" than Schumi. Props to the kid and KeKe must be loving it!! While I don't think MS is embarassing himself (ala Luca Baddddoer), he appears to moving in the wrong direction and is now, in my mind, open to criticism.
Mate you obviously did not read the article I posted above: He's most definitely discouraged after this weekend. Pete
Nail has been hit. This is the problem. MS never raced just for fun before, while he loved it, he raced to WIN. His return has been all about having a bit of a laugh and his lack lustre efforts on the track show he has absolutely no hunger and quite rightly nothing to prove to himself. He should not have returned unless he really wanted to give it 150% again. Pete
The Williams of both drivers made it into Q2 14 times in 2006 (out of 18 races). Webber didn't make Q2 3 times, Rosberg 1 time (advantage Rosberg). Even with this advantage Webber made it to Q3 more times and had a better overall qualifying position (which is ultimately the best qualifying metric). Exactly, but average finishing position over the course of a season isn't exactly a poor metric. Very few people judge by points solely. One can compare drivers by average qualifying position, average race finishing position, qualifying time margin, top qualifying performances, top race performances, average positions gained from qualy, on track passing, subjective rankings, etc. In very few of these comparisons did Rosberg beat Webber. True. Only 4 times in a year of 18 races did it not get into Q2. In 2006 the Williams was the definition of a Q2 car. That's where speed should be measured for it. You say this, yet I presented more data. You are relying on Q1 qualy, where Q2 is a much better judge of overall driver speed for the Williams (or average qualy position).
Would surprise me to see him finish the season. Like all geezers who think they still have it and then the young bucks showing them that they don't. So far pretty sad performance from a once cocky bastard.
Its a complex mix indeed. Add to it money that one brings in sponsorship, National ties (think Super Best Friends and Renault), experiance, the driver's managers spiel and relationship to the team (Todt).... These are the decisions that the managers make in hiring a driver. Sometimes its a major strike out; think Ralphie in his waning years at a ludicrous salary and Kimster's buy out just to fire his but. Sometimes its a major out of the Park home run. Lewis first year at $200k. No one but Ron Dennis saw that coming and I'm sure he was surprised. As far as Rosberg I'm glad to say I saw that coming the year before he was in F1. Then F1 and the doldrum years at Williams (which is one of my favorite teams still today). Now he's at Mercedes and suddenly he has been discovered. Or MS has "shown him the secret bag of tricks". I dont know about that. He always had it just never had the car. Or MS is just old tired and stupid. Right..... Driver like Sutil and Alguersuari (seen from his very remarkable first drive in a F1 car, not just his recent dice with MS) are WDC capable if given the shot. IMO MS will come around but with a top team mate will never shine like he used to. Another WDC is possible but until the car is dominant it wont happen.
Excellent post, David. Good points. It looks like Nico is following in the footsteps of his father. Keke was not on anyone's radar screen when he came into F1 and raced for Fittipaldi. Only when he went to a top team (Williams) was he able to show his ability. Now almost 30 years later history repeats itself with his son Nico unable to show his form with Williams, but impressing when joining a top team (Mercedes). The quality of the car is the dominant factor in a racer's career... Frank p.s. If anyone could excel at 41+ all of our money would be on MS. However, as others have said, the 3 years away and the lack of testing (which was always one of MS's trump cards) compound the difficulty of racing at the age of 40+...so far it hasn't been pretty to watch...
Hi Pete, I only used the names of those who were beaten by their teammate in both quali and points their first season. I'm afraid Niki won't amount to much, he was crushed by Ronnie 10-2 in qualifying ......
You are unreal. I noticed you were quiet after Spain? They went back to the chassis he doesn't like for this race, let's see how the rest of the year plays out...
Careful: you're discussing results in a thread that has no spoiler warnings. You might want to edit out the results in your post.
Wow - your pathetic....you would think someone with your passion and knowledge could contrbute to this forum in a more constructive way. Guess not Rob should rename this forum 'Andrea's Sandbox' Kevin
