Will RB switch to Honda? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Will RB switch to Honda?

Discussion in 'F1' started by TheMayor, Jun 10, 2018.

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Will RB switch to Honda from Renault power?

Poll closed Sep 18, 2018.
  1. Yes. The need to break away from the others

    16 vote(s)
    39.0%
  2. No. Honda is too risky

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  3. Hell no. They can't be that crazy

    7 vote(s)
    17.1%
  4. Hell yes. Honda will deliver a 1st rate PU

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Money talks! Take it and run!

    5 vote(s)
    12.2%
  6. PU Changes are coming. The field will be level. Short term loss, long term gain

    12 vote(s)
    29.3%
  1. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie

    May 6, 2007
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    Between Renault and Honda, makes sense to switch to Honda. Doesn't seem that there is much in it between them for power now and Honda reliability seems to be decent this year. Newey would also like that the Honda is one of the more compact PU's. The unknown is fuel consumption which Honda used to struggle with. This will be a huge victory for Honda, they will be winning races in 2019.
     
  2. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    It's funny that no one has picked option 4 - "
    Hell yes. Honda will deliver a 1st rate PU"

    It is a gamble, but I say Red Bull takes it.
     
  3. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,186
    Cheshire
    It’s not a gamble worth taking in my view. As the engine regs are stable and have been for a while, all manufacturers are converging in performance as all they can do is further optimise what they already have. No one is starting with a clean sheet for next year. This is messing with the margins of performance.
     
    375+ likes this.
  4. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    Was always in the cards. Why did Red Bull switch to Exxon otherwise?
     
  5. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Mar 19, 2017
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    The national cultures are highly evident in the engines they build in F1. If the French weren't so conflicted over the capitalist concept of winning, their efforts in motor sport would be more consistent. Watching Le Mans and the way the Toyotas are dominating says that the Japanese (Honda) will eat their mistakes and keep their heads down and push on until they succeed. I think the hardest thing for the Japanese to accept are the F1 budgets. Italians love auto racing as much as sex...in fact for them it is sex. Organization is not the hallmark of great sex, hence the fault in their stars.
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Deal is done. Honda.
     
  7. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Damn! Link?
     
    Bas likes this.
  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Will be announced this week;)[​IMG]
     
  9. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If anyone can make it work, RB can.

    I am not holding my breath though.
     
    william likes this.
  10. PDX_214

    PDX_214 Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2010
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    It would be dumb to continue with Renault into the next gen of engine regs. Building the relationship with Honda now sets them up for success in the near future. With Torro Rosso they got a glimpse, and its not bad. I think the deal will be greatly mutually beneficial. I wouldn't be surprised if they win another WCC with them, especially if they keep Ricci.

    Besides, playing 2nd fiddle to the factory team has to get old. Why not be the works team themselves and be directly involved in the development? RB saw the dysfunction with McLaren and if they work with Honda instead of playing the blame game it can only help both of them. Honda could be a force to be reckoned with if they stay committed. I welcome the competition, until they beat Ferrari regularly...
     
  11. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2009
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    Good summary. It's a great way to set up for the new regulations. AND... Adrian Newey has a proven ability to design around an ailing donkey... which will help development in the meantime.
     
    PDX_214 likes this.
  12. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    Does this mean Ricci will be leaving RB?
     
  13. PDX_214

    PDX_214 Formula Junior

    Apr 25, 2010
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    If Adrian Newey and Honda work together to design something as a whole, it could be amazing.

    I just bought his book, can't wait to start reading it..
     
    BMWairhead likes this.
  14. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2006
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    I would generally agree with you but exactly the same was said about McLaren at the beginning of the relationship with Honda. And RB is no stranger to blaming its engine manufacturer if it does not work the way they want (even after the same engine supplier gave them several WCC the years before). So it will be very interesting to see whether it will be a step forward or backwards for RB
     
    william and 375+ like this.
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    RB has made the correct choice. Renault is a dead end. Honda will work it's tail off for them.
     
    Bas likes this.
  16. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Here is what people forget. Honda was wagging the tail of McLaren. McLaren was giving them the direction and spec for the bespoke engine and packaging they wanted. Honda did not have a free reign on the PU.

    Looking at McLaren now with Renault and the condition of the team, you start to get suspect that not all the problems were from Honda but from also McLaren demands.

    As always, there are 2 sides to every story.
     
  17. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Condition of the team now? They are in 5th now vs 2nd from dead last at the end of 2017. TR is doing so well with Honda that they are losing .5 sec a lap with them. RB aren't going to be doing any better with Honda than McLaren and TR have.
     
  18. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I am sure Newey ran every possible scenario by computer for how to improve and incorporate the PU already. This was not just an economic decision. RB thinks they can win with Honda.
     
  19. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    The team just had a shop floor revolt last week asking for a management change in the team. It doesn't get more serious than that.

    McLaren itself has said this season is a disappointment and are not meeting their own goals.
     
  20. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    But is the engine a complete re-construction since then? I doubt so the basics might already have problems...And I do not know why the Honda engine should improve more than the Renault engine in the same time? Both are not on pair with Ferrari and Mercedes and both need to become for the teams using them to be a serious WDC and WCC contender.
     
  21. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    #47 nerofer, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    Of course. Absolutely spot on, as always, on the subject of french matters. Entirely confirmed by results. Let's see...

    Renault results in Formula One between 1977 and 2018: 35 victories for the Renault team, 133 as an engine supplier, and 10 more under the disguise of TAG Heuer. Total 168 (178). Last win: Monaco G.P 2018

    Honda results in Formula One between 1964 and 2018: 3 as a team, 69 as an engine supplier, and 3 under the Mugen-Honda disguise. Total: 72 (75). Last win: Austrian G.P 2006

    Now, as far as consistency goes: I maybe wrong, but it seems to me that Honda has left Formula One, then come-back, at least as many times as Renault...if not more. But they used Mugen during the late eighties not to lose experience completly.

    I do hope very much that Red Bull Honda will win in 2019, as I am a great fan of Honda in Formula One, but your argument on national culture doesn't make sense at all. The "lack of consistency" of Renault's efforts in Formula One has nothing to do with the "concept of winning", but with Carlos Goshn personal estimation of the returns for Renault's image. The old days of Renault as "the" national, state-owned, car company of France are long gone: the State's stake is only 15%; it's a listed company and it's the CEO that counts. Goshn decided to "leave" Formula One as a factory team in 2009 due to the economic crisis and the fact that he wasn't convinced that the factory team was helping the image of Renault at all (but in a way, they stayed as engine provider for Lotus, and one Kimi Räikkönen won two races for that team); and then, to come back because of the new engine regulations starting 2014 and the fact that he thought that Red Bull's titles were not benefiting Renault.
    And you know of course that Goshn isn't really 100% french, but has two nationalities...and, by the way, is an icon in Japan as "the man who saved Nissan". Which further illustrate that your argument about national culture is nonsense...

    From what we hear from Renault here: they are sad not to work with Adrian Newey any more, but relieved not to have to work with the rest of Red Bull.

    Rgds
     
    william likes this.
  22. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Looks like it's official


    [​IMG]
     
    classic308 likes this.
  23. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    It is official-Honda in, Renault out at Red Bull.
     
  24. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    So the press release from Red Bull Racing is not official ?
     

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