Will the 355 eclipse the 360 as they both age?

I don't think anyone would have predicted the Dino would do what it has done. I was talking with a guy that has a beautiful 308 at a recent rally. He said he had the opportunity to buy a Dino about 10 years ago for something around 40k. He passed. His 308 is worth about the same now as it was then, which is not bad considering. But the Dino is worth 3x that now.

No one can predict what the market will be for the 355 vs the 360 in 20 years.

But here are three facts:
1. The CS is very, very cool, but I can take my roof off.
2. The 355 has a sound that has never and will never be duplicated.
3. My 355 will have like a million miles on it and wont be worth ****.

 

Being as the original question compared the 993 and 996 versions of the 911 and I'm still a porsche guy I'll quickly chime in- it's not a good comparison. The 996 resale values are low relative to the earlier 911s because: The took what was an iconic largely hand built car that was rock solid with no plastic stuff and thicker gauge sheet metal and a classic air-cooled motor and turned it into...well the opposite. The plastic interior is a huge turnoff immediately, and then the loss of the 911 "personality" is the next turnoff. They are a great performer, but just took a car that had it's own aura and stole the personality out in my opinion (and evidently the market's opinion given the pricing). The 996 is a very good car- don't get me wrong, but it's like it's a different car than a "911" to me.

The 360 is the next generation Ferrari- yes it's a lot different than the 355, but it had retained a high level of exclusivitivity...the lines are beautiful- while I'd love a spider, I must say the 360 coupe must be one of the most beautiful Ferraris. I think the 360 has a little more to fall in value and the 355 seems to be pretty close to bottom, but the prices are getting so close that you can probably already find a couple of really clean late 355 spiders worth more than an early 360.

I do think the market will be "mindful" of some of the extra maint. issues with the 355, although either are not as cheap of a car to maintain than an 911 or other sports car. At this point, I don't think the difference will be that great- interesting talk for this thread, but not enough to sway someone as to whether to buy a 355 or 360- a purchase decision is going to come down to someone's preference for the styling and car more and more as time goes on...they are both classics already to me

 

What portion of the market is the United States? 30 percent?

(They made zero Boxers for the American market, yet we have them here.)

Sorry, I think the 360 CS is a desirable 360, but over time it just won't be that big a deal, even if it will accelerate nearly as quickly as a California. And if 130 owners have crashed their 360 CS's already after 5 years, I wonder about the buyers or the quality of the car. That's pretty much drunk-teenager-in-Camaro-after-prom territory, if your facts are correct.

Maybe, maybe, the F430 16M will be significant, with only 499 made, but it's a plaque-engineered rarity. Ditto the 348 SS with fewer than 100 made. Yes, it's more desirable than a 348 -- especially with the CF seats -- but in 20 years I don't see collectors falling all over themselves to throw money at these cars. Ghibli Spyders, yes. 348 SS, no.

Modern Ferraris are all about technology, not art, and technology ages poorly. It's hard to imagine future Ferrari buyers wanting the '90s and '00s cars in these cars' old age. I think the choice will be between the classic, hand-made stuff that is already low-tech, or the vastly improved newest model which goes faster, stops quicker, and has the better computers and plastics that don't melt.

I even wonder about all the glues/adhesives/composites in modern cars. What happens to bonded aluminum over time? We're not talking about I-beams and rivets anymore. More like super glue and plastic.

Because of this, all of these newer cars have weak prospects, IMHO. The 355 gets credit for being the last of the really compact sports cars, and one that nearly everyone regards as exceptionally good looking. It's like the little black dress of the modern Ferrari sports cars. High maintenance, fun and always looks good.

Will it eclipse the 360? I don't know, but I think the high-end auto industry has crossed a line from making "forever cars" (e.g., Daytonas and 288 GTOs) to making cars meant to be used up before obsolescence. This is not just a Ferrari thing -- I would guess the rare Aston Martin Vanquish, for example, with its already troublesome paddle shift, is going to be more of a liability than an asset in the coming decades. The 360s may well be in that same situation. I wouldn't count on them as keeper cars, and I think the opportunity to make a fast buck reselling them is long gone.

So, to quote the timeless Nina Simone, "shut up and drive!" **



Alright so it wasn't her...

 

That is correct .... ................... nothing that cannot be properly addressed ......



Now onto the thread ........


The 355 is so much better looking than the 360 .......... it is not even funny or close .......... the 360 was a rushed design, where the 355 was an evolution/refinement that started with the 308 and 288. The 355 is simply more 'hardcore' than a comfy, misshapen, ill sounding 360 ........

I cannot wait until more 355s gets in the hands of owners, who are not worried about miles, not afraid to get the engines properly rebuilt/upgraded and 'technical' issues addressed (like the 308/328 guys). The 355 engine introduced revolutionary technology with its titanium rods, five valves per cylinder and individual throttle bodies. It was so good they used the same 'core engine' in the 360 and CS ...... but IMO the 355 is a more 'pure' design because it does not have any 'variable' components (cam variators and variable length intake runners). The 355's 'core engine' was not replaced until the F430. Ferrari knew they made a design mistake on the bulky 360/430 ...... that is why the 458 has a longer, better looking nose with a single vent ........ like the 355 ......... though the 458 head lights could use some help .......

The 355 is and will continue to be ........ the best car in the world ...... EVER!!!



*

 

I would agree with Oz. The F355 has inherent problems (like every Ferrari), but nothing which can't be rectified and/or improved. Moreover, some of these problems are over-stated (e.g., valve guides). I think many people forget that many of the F355-associated problems (e.g., headers) are becoming more apparent on the F360s as this model ages. I'm also pretty confident that there will be an increasing number of issues with many of the F360s first-generation engine "improvements" (e.g., cam variators) and heat-related issues from the glass-enclosed engine compartment. In addition, the F360's all aluminum construction requires specialized equipment and tech training.

As far as styling, I much prefer the F355, but to each his own.

My pick for the "hot" cars of this era will be the carb 308 GTBs (especially the fiberglass model and any euro versions) and the F355B (most likely the 1995 2.7 model).

 

+1

Headers are a one time aftermarket fix with lifetime warranty, end of discussion. Newer 355's already have the improved valve guides. Oh and the transmission is bulletproof

 

"Sorry, I think the 360 CS is a desirable 360, but over time it just won't be that big a deal"

Thats why some prefer blondes and some prefer brunettes. I prefer the hot blonde in the red dress and you want the sophiticated brunette in the black dress.

Both will be desirable in the future if well cared for I would be willing to wager (the cars, not the women,,, ok the women too)

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

{rhetoric} Then how do you account for the rebirth of the 1960s muscle cars, being rebuilt and driven by people who were teens and twenties when these cars were new? {/rhetoric}

I suspect that each generation will come of age and latch onto a few cars of that moment in time when they truely saw the world of cars. I know I did. My comming of age was just at the moment when Road and Track drove the new Muira. It was then that I knew I wanted the aural characteristics of an exotic car. I suffered through an X1/9 as it was all I could afford, moving up through a BWM 320S, a Corvette, and finally an F355B.

I also suspect that those few F355s that end up in competent rebuilders/home-mechanics hands will fare well in the long run. The aspects of a symbiotic relationship with an automobile are somewhat like that of a classy woman.

For me, when I got around to being the the cost range where I could buy a Ferrari, I could have gotten a 360. But this car just did not suit me, even at 48 I still had a streak of "boy racer" and the 360 spoke of "gentleman GT". Now, 8 years down the road, contemplating my second major service, I still love this car. At the race tracks this F355B with street tires (S03s) in M6 form I routinely drive down and pass 360s with r-compounds and F1 transmissions. Equal drivers in an F355 and a 360 would see the 360 walk away. However, I routinly lap within 2 seconds of the lap record for 3200 pound 400 HP cars on actual street tires (2:06 at TWS streets, 2:00 with R-compounds, 1:56 with slicks, and 1:54 in a Challenge F355). I get a kick out of driving in to the track, pulling out my chair, tools kit, helmet and accessories. Presto, I'm ready for a day at the track. I sit watchinig others change anti-roll bars (P-cars), tires (many to most), and spend 20 minutes cleaning out the interior of flyable objects.

For me the F355 reaches a button attached to my soul that no 360 did (the 430 was close) but this new 458 has me wondering how to raise the cash to get in line. It touches that same button and would have even if it had 100 HP less--it looks the part. Sort of like the F430 took a step back from "gentleman GT" back towards "boy racer".

 

I believe the Acura NSX had ti conrods.

While I think the 355 is better looking than the 360, I'm surprised no one seems to think the 360's aluminum construction would be valuable to collectors in the future.

 

NSX was aluminum as well, way before the 360.

 

Sorry Jon, I just can't get on board here. The 360 Spider has much better looks (top down) than the Modena or the 355. Top up, not quite as nice.

I think the high production numbers of the 360 were driven by a high demand for the car. The higher demand for the 360 of course because of a better looking design all around than the 355. In the same way that there are more 355's than 348's. The 355 is/was a better looking car.

I was at a car show just a week ago and there was a really nice Dino there. It just doesn't look that good. It wasn't well received back in the day because it didn't look that good then either. Low production then makes for a rare and valuable collector now. Not all will agree with me I'm sure. It's kind of like listening to an oldies radio station. If a song wasn't very good in 1965 and you hear it played on the oldies station today, you realize that it still isn't very good now. Songs can't benefit from low production numbers as cars can. If take the cash value away from these cars and see what's left. The 355/360 are far better looking than a 246.

 

The 360 came out during an era of easy credit, soaring (inflated) home values, etc.

Lots of people feeling wealthy = lots of new Ferraris sold.

There's no ultimate truth around what car looks best. You own a 360, so you fairly regard it as the better looking car. 348 owners probably think their car is the best. I'm a fan of the 246-308-328 run, etc. They're all Ferraris, so they're all desirable. That said, IMHO, the 355 was Pininfarina's last hurrah.

You could do a "355 or 360: which is better looking?" poll in the general discussion forum if you'd like to prove your point.

 

ok this is pretty funny....really just human nature I guess. In this forum the 355 owners (me included) are always saying how it looks so much better than the next model up (360). I was just cruising the 360 forum (I rarely browse other forums, just not enough time in the day!). A recent thread there has 3 pages of 360 owners saying how it looks so much better than the 430.

I want to see the 430 guys try to say those look much better than the 458 next!

It's all good...buy what you want to drive and enjoy

 

Nah, don't need to prove a point. We just see differently on what is our favorite Ferrari's. No worries.

Besides, I would hate for all these 355 owners to have to undergo that kind of reality check.

 

I just meant that the 360 was the first modern Ferrari road-car to use aluminum construction, which later made its way to all the other models.

 

...... ................ the 355 has won by a huge margin numerous times in the general section ............ 360 owners just need to accept their model was designed to carry golf clubs, be more comfortable and make up for vast insecurities in their drivers ....... ......... the only good 360 ..... is a CS ........

 

I definitely think that the 355 will be worth more than the 360. Personally, the 355 is the end of an era, its arguably a better looking car, has more character, is iconic, insanely good sounding engine (which is why most people buy them), are more pure, and there are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR fewer. Production numbers speak volumes in collectibility. To me the 360 is a rap stars ferrari... most were made with automatics, they were featured in every rap video, and mostly no-talent ass clowns own them... ok... that last comment went a too far...

Yes the servicing is expensive, but what vintage ferrari isn't...

Also, I will be interested to hear how the aluminum chassis of the 360s hold up. The BMW Z8s were having stress crack problems......... it will be interesting to see if this italian made version fairs any better.

(yes as you can tell, I am biased having owned a 355... to me the 360 is the ford Taurus of ferraris... with the 456 being a buick) its all in good fun folks

 

I disagree. I give an enthusiastic thumbs up to the styling of both cars.

 

You seem to think this is a positive aspect (aluminum frame). In the long term (20+ years), aluminum is not as good as steel for building frames. You see, aluminum has a finite lifetime, whereas steel when stressed to less than 1/2 its tensile limits has essentially an infinite lifetime.

{{And yes I know that both F355s and 360s used in track-like conditions are both having issues with the shock towers. I take this as a heads-up kind of warning}}

 

F355 GTS gated FTW !

Those are going to be valuable one day...far more than any of the 360s including the CS

At least thats what my crystal ball tells me.

 

I want my crystal ball back when you're done with it, please.

 

Does the USAF know about this with all those B52s they're still flying? I'm sure it isn't exactly the same but still. Doesn't seem to be a problem with the '91 NSXs out there.

 

+1 Same with Porsche.
Now granted the 993 is the last air cooled 911, and an awesome car, they "only" produced 77,418 (per this site: http://p-car.com/production.html)

Porsche pumped out over 140,000 996's (from data I've pieced together, feel free to correct )

I'm sure 997 production is similar to the 996.

Per the registry, 11,373 355's versus 17,500 360's: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57036

Then again, if this "theory" was rock solid, the 964's would be worth more than 993's with only 52,000 built.....

No real point, just bored doing some searching