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Will the 612 survive against the Bentley C-GT and MB CL AMG?

Discussion in '612/599' started by ryalex, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    22,361
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Ryan Alexander
    I was just thinking about the depreciation of the 456 and the arrival of the new 612. I was thinking that in the 4-seat coupe market, the 612's main competition for marketshare is the Bentley Continental GT and the MB CL 65AMG. It's going to be a rough ride, these are some tough German cars...

    Will it be able a success, given it's price/performance ratio versus these other great coupes? Will the marque's stature and branding be able to attract devoted Ferrari fans away from the obscene performance figures of the CL?



    612 Scaglietti - Estimated Price: $240,000
    Configuration 65 Degree V12
    Curb Weight 1840 kg / 4057 lbs
    Length 4902 mm / 193.0 in
    Displacement 5748 cc / 350.8 cu in
    Width 1957 mm / 77.0 in
    Power 402.7 kw / 540 bhp @ 7250 rpm
    Height 1344 mm / 52.9 in
    Torque 588.42 nm / 434 ft lbs @ 5250 rpm
    Wheelbase 2950 mm / 116.1 in
    HP / Liter 93.95 bhp per litre

    0-60mph 4.2s
    Top Speed 315kph / 196mph

    Bentley Continental GT - MSRP: $158,000
    Drive Wheels 4WD w/ESP
    Kerb Weight: 5313lbs
    Configuration W12, 6spd transmission
    Valvetrain DOHC, 5 Valves per Cyl
    Displacement 5998 cc / 366.0 cu in
    Power 552hp
    Torque 479 ft lbs
    HP / Liter 91.7 bhp per litre

    0-60mph 4.7s
    Top Speed 318kph/198mph
    (I think the more impressive figure is Bentley's claimed 40-100mph in 3.6s!)

    Mercedes-Benz CL 65 AMG - Est. Price: $175,000
    6L V12 Biturbo
    612hp / 737lbs torque (MB claims 884lbs, but electronically limited)
    0-60 4.4s
    Top Speed 250kph, electronically limited (somebody get Renntech on the phone... the speedo reads to 360kph)

    Bentley info from Bentleymotors.com (factory site), MB from Daimler-Chrysler website.
     
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  3. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2002
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    Jeff
    In my opinion you would have to be a brand loyal Moron to by the 612 for that much over the other two. Or rich enough that price is no concern!
     
  4. JimSchad

    JimSchad Guest

    What is with the total divergence of paths between Lambo and Ferrari? Lambo going small, angular and extreme and Ferrari going long, curved and subdued?

    This is just my view, but seems that all of us "kids" that grew up in the 70's and 80's liked the 308's and TR's cause that is what we knew, but couldn't afford. Now that we are becoming of age and obtaining some buying power we want those cars, but Ferrari isn't offering anything that meets my dream car memories, but Lambo is.

    I personally don't like the Fcar lineup after the 355 went away.
     
  5. Mickey

    Mickey Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
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    I never understand the logic of having a high-performance 4-seater.

    But if I had to pick one, I would go for the CL.
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    45,139
    Texas!
    Here is my prediction. Ferrari will sell every 612 it makes at or near sticker. Keep in mind that FNA will be bringing in only about 200 a year. Are there 200 successful doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs who'd love to have a Ferrari, but can't talk their spouse into a 2 seater? You betcha.

    Will the 612 depreciate like "car keys falling out of a lear jet" (I love this quote from Naplois)? You betcha.

    Will the original 200 a year owners care? Nope.

    There's a difference between you and me and rich people. I'll leave it to you to figure out what this difference is. I want 10 pages double spaced by tomorrow. Class over.


    DrTax
     
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  8. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    I'd take both those cars over the 612, by a longshot. And, add the DB9 for good measure. Even if the 612 was priced the SAME as those 3 cars, I'd take the other 3.
     
  9. DrewH

    DrewH F1 Rookie
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    I would take the Bentley or the Merc way over a 612. If people line up to buy the 612 Ferrari will keep making blend in with the crowd cars.

    Let's face it Ferrari's are desired for their exotic looks and heart pounding sound not because of their reliabilty and superior engineering. If you just want to go fast there are cheaper better options and if reliabilty and quality is what your after there are many better options.

    DrewH
     
  10. lotustt

    lotustt Formula 3

    Aug 28, 2002
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    TRM
    I read sharon osbourne is buying 2 Bentley Continental GT's. She was amazed the price was so "cheap". The 612 faces a lot of tough competition, I dont think it has legs to stand on.
     
  11. Mickey

    Mickey Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
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    Interesting !!!
     
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  13. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
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    The 612 will do fine against that glorified Phaeton (VW). Although the CL is a helluva car, I still think the 612 will find its own niche.
     
  14. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    "the Bentley Continental GT and the MB CL 65AMG. It's going to be a rough ride, these are some tough German cars..."

    Bentley, German????

    Anywho, my guess it the 612 will sell and slightly exceed their expectations. Thus still giving Ferrari the impression that "if we make it, they will buy it, at whatever we want to charge for it."
     
  15. rossi

    rossi Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    480
    Bentley = Volkswagen = German
     
  16. F550M

    F550M Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    7
    There really is no comparison between the 612 and the Bentley and AMG. The 612 is in a completely different class. Sure the other two have great power and impressive acceleration figures, but what happens when you have to turn the steering wheel? The Bentley weighs over 5,000 pounds!!! That is absurd. The AMG is not much better at over 4400 pounds. Furthermore, the weight distribution in the Ferrari is 48F/52R. Technologically there is not really a lot of comparsion between the 612 and the others. It is light years ahead. Give me a choice and I'd take the 612 all day long, regardless of what it looks like.
     
  17. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
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    Mr. Doody
    here's my take.

    ferrari sells its four seaters to only two market segments.

    the first are devout customers who have other f-cars but need one to haul the kids in too. someone seriously considering the bentley or benz isn't a potential 612 customer. it's the guy who has a 550 or a 360 and his wife is riding his ass about four seats.

    OR

    the second are geographically, societally, etc. constrained to only own own one car (i get the impression that many asian locales like hong kong, singapore, etc. fall into this bucket). you want a ferrari, but you need to haul the kids and others too.

    if you look at the production numbers historically, they do not sell very many of these cars, and they don't fare well on long-term value either. the buyers are hardcore.

    i think they build it for a small but eager clientele and they don't care about the bentley or benz or anything else for that matter.

    my two pennies.

    doody.
     
  18. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
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    Ryan Alexander
    I was going to reply, but I see Doody and Rossi said was I was going to. The 456 does seem more popular in crowded European cities and Asia. The only ones I've seen on the street were in Koblenz, Germany and I think I saw one in Monaco.

    I agree with Dale, that most 612's will sell for MSRP, because I can't see them building any of them before orders are in, except for the floor model - maybe 1 per dealer. That way they meet demand 100% by only building what's ordered. And yes, they'll tank in value, but I agree in doubting that the older/wealthier demographic buying them will care as much (same people that by Rolls or Bentley Azure, each with disastrous depreciation as well).

    F550- I agree that the 5,000lbs is crazy- it's not that big of a car, either. Even worse, that was the 'kerb' weight, the other (I assume with all fluids and four occupants) weight stat they gave was like 6,100lbs! That does leave a lot of improvement for a new, lightweight aluminum car that has been gutted to sell as a GT-R model (or Red Label or whatever Bentley calls it).
     
  19. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    Feb 13, 2004
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    The Bentley and the CL are direct competitors, both ultimately hanle like a boat. have a look at the EVO review of the bentley GT in their PCOTY review. They concluded the Porsche SUV to be a better performance offering.
    I am an MB man these days, so I am biased towards the CL, but it, like the E55 is an enormously competent intercontinental ballistic missile, nothing more. Nor is it designed to be. The CL in particular, will leave the 612 standing in a sraight line brawl, but how many potential customers would actually street race?
    If the 612 can actually handle with the feel of a 575, whilst not ideal, is a mile ahead of the other two cars.
     
  20. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2002
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    Personally I don't think the weight matters one bit in this market. These cars will be at Mortons for dinner, not racing at the tracks.
     
  21. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    Id take a Maser anyday over any of these choices.
     
  22. Norm512TR

    Norm512TR Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2001
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    Norm
    I believe that all three of these cars will sell out their production runs regardless of weight, handling, or even gas mileage. I'll just bet the line will be longer at the Bentley and MBZ dealers.

    It will be interesting to track the resale value in a couple of years, any bets on the price of a 3 year old 612 compared to a 3 year old MBZ or Bentley?
     
  23. Jimmy540i

    Jimmy540i Formula 3
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    Jan 11, 2004
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    Mercedes has gone crzay with thier HP & TQ since 2002 on their high-end models

    800+ lb ft of Torque on a street car?! That's good enough to move a 18 wheeler. Crazy AMG, but then again, forced induction rocks! =)

    JIMMY
    www.Jimmy540i.com <---- Supercharged BMW :D
     
  24. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2002
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    The new super car Maser I hope otherwise you are on crack!
     
  25. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,175
    A rich person does not see any difference between $250K and $150K, both are pocket change amounts of money, smaller than roundoff error in their last bonus.
     
  26. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    Nope, I was talking about the Quattroporte. I think this car has serious class.
    I mean just look at it right here Its a beautiful car.
     
  27. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2002
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    That car is not bad but its a 4 door sedan. Not the same category! We are talking luxury four seater coupes.
     
  28. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    Awwww, well then in that case I suppose I would go ahead and grab the 612, I'm not keen on the looks but Im not keen on the other choices looks either, lose lose situation here, so I suppose Id just go with the marquis that I know and love.
     

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