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Will the C8 be able to do this....

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by Eric R, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    Well, I'm one of the faithful and a base C8 equaling a C7 GS would be just fine. The base car IS what sustains Corvette, not the Z06 or the ZR1.
    It is unrealistic to expect the base car (C8), giving away upwards of 150-255 HP to be faster around a track than the outgoing C7 Z06/ZR1.
    That's the same as expecting a Cayman GT4 to be faster than a 911 GT3, even though the Cayman is the better handling car.
     
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  2. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    What I am hoping for is a car that is easier and more fulfilling to drive quickly. The C5/C6/and especially C7 are quick cars that handle very nicely. BUT, they are nor EASY cars to drive at the limit. The C7 came closest to it, especially the Grand Sport. While it's faster, more powerful siblings will always get the nod because of HP/lap times/etc, I think the C7 GS is the best all around Corvette ever made.
    I say this as someone who's owned the last 3 generations and have driven EVERY variant of the last 3 generations.
     
  3. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Tadge agrees with you, to quote him "the C7 Grand Sport is the best all around Corvette".
     
  4. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    That Tadge...never an original thought....always copying me;)
     
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  5. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    I would agree with jimmyb about the grand sport, I wrote some posts about it a year or so ago. The true corvette faithful are not going to buy a Porsche, Ferrari, or a Lamborghini, even though every one of those companies makes a better sports car. Luckily the three companies I just mentioned keep raising their prices with and it is pretty hard to get a decently optioned 992 for under 125K. The new supra, nope that is not the type of car the Corvette owner cross shops, so what do they do. Like I said I am a member of the corvette forum, and those folks can find a lot to talk about. I think the transmission will matter, and if they give the interior a new look (and make it unique to just the new corvette), it will make a difference. Why because they don't that to get into their Chevy SUV or their friend Camaro and see the same type of interior, I know I would not. The hard core Corvette racing group (and those who think they are), are always going to want more, but that is not who the majority of these cars are sold to, and it is not who will likely buy the base car anyway.
     
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  6. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior
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    Good stuff finally. Not to throw my own post off track but Tadge also said of the late models the C6 427 is the one to hold on to. Now back to C8. I hear a lot from you two (jimmyb and carnut) about handling and ease of driving. I have not owned a C7 but know the C5/6 platform well. I prefer the driving characteristics of the C5Z06 on track more than the C6ZR1. Maybe its because I to my lessons in and started tracking the C5 which allowed me to bond with it. Of course you can make it faster and get to ZR1 performance but I left it alone aside from minor bolt ons. To this day I love that car. Yes the ZR1 was way more car but it did not give me the feel that I was use to and I don't mean that in a bad way. It was just different. I have pushed both to the extent of my abilities and on track prefer the C5Z. On a extended trip, the ZR1 (minus the damn splitter).

    I think we may see 1984 play out all over again. Hot off the press, falls off cliff. I hope not but I can see things setting up this way.
     
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  7. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    ^^^^
    I'm not sure how you think the C4 "falls off cliff". The car was in production 12 years, they sold 358,180 of them (29,848 per year average!)
     
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  8. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior
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    Uh, without doing google on it for actual numbers it was a hit in 84 with 50k sold. That was like the second biggest year ever for it. Then it dropped to 30k and then hovered around 20k for the remaining years. Your average there is VERY SKEWED and misleading. Length of run is not the indicator of success. It was damn near killed off. Remember? That is why it took so long for the C5 to debut. So yes, it fell off a cliff.
     
  9. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior
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  10. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    Here, enjoy some CORRECT numbers (unless GM sold the IDENTICAL number of C4's in 1992 and 1993, which your list shows and then makes me question all of your #'s). The ACTUAL numbers for the last FOUR years of each generation, excluding C1 and C7. These are from the Corvette Museum. C1 was not a successful seller (and it's 60+ years ago) and C7 is obviously still for sale.

    C2 1964-1967: 96,453 units sold (24,113 per year)
    C3 1979-1982: 159,984 units sold (39,996 per year)
    C4 1993-1996: 87,198 units sold (21,780 per year)
    C5 2001-2004: 140,927 units sold (35,231 per year)
    C6 2010-2013: 50,903 units sold (12,726 per year)

    No question the WORST Corvettes ever were the end of the line C2's (emission strangled, etc) and yet they are the CLEAR sales champion. The C4 started out great as you pointed out, but then struggled some what late. I would offer that the C4 had MORE competition (and STOUT competition) in it's later life from Japan ( last gen 300ZX and TT, Dodge Stealth and TT, Mitsubishi 3000GT and VR4, Mazda RX-7, Supra and Turbo) and Germany (Porsche 944/968). The C6 never recovered from the financial meltdown. Obviously, C3 and C5 are the STARS.
    So, I guess we can (hopefully) agree to disagree. I think C4 has to be considered a success, when in it's last 4 years, with MORE good competition than any Corvette has faced before or since, it still managed 21+K units a year.
     
  11. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    From what I have read the 2013 427 GrandSport is a real keeper. I love my 06 z51(LS2) for what it is and what I paid for it, but wish I had done more research and bought up market a bit since I am done going through cars as fast as I used too. The late c6 LS3 cars with good options (z51, 3LT) are amazing cars that only a few can test the limits of.

    - oh, and I like my A6 transmission. ...to much traffic and railroads tracks to deal with where I live to fight with a manual. Sport mode and the paddles are great.
     
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  12. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior
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    jimmyb your one hell of of a politician. You take things in directions with no regards to topic at hand. So if your are saying what I posted was incorrect numbers first prove it. Then trying to take the last four years when production runs have varying years to begin with is very dishonest representation of the data. I proved my point and you can't handle it. C4 production dropped over 50% from the debut. That is off a cliff. Now where can we all contribute to your campaign?
     
  13. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    #38 jimmyb, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    Jeez Eric,
    I don't know what to tell you...you posted a link that used the SAME EXACT numbers for TWO years (1992/1993)...which, as I said, then brings every other number into question. I don't have to PROVE it, look it up...it's YOUR link. So, I used different numbers that I had faith in.
    BTW, what are you so put out about? You're acting like I called you names of something.
    My suggestion is for you to learn about Corvettes. The 1984 Corvette was a huge sales success partly because there was NO 1983 Corvette (which lessens your 50% loss point). I have only given you FACTUAL numbers, haven't lied, JUST THE FACTS. You didn't like my 12 year average...now you don't like my last 4 year average, you call me dishonest? I OPENLY stated the C4 struggled sales wise in it's latter life. How about you READ my entire post instead of having a hissy fit because I dared to question you (which I didn't...I disagreed with you, which, last I checked, is OK).

    More importantly:
    WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????

    Besides, based on practically every post you make, you're clearly not buying a C8 anyway.:rolleyes:
    Anyhow, I'm out of this. Have fun yelling at clouds.
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Interesting thread. I would say the C3 sold based on great styling, and for much of the 70s no real competition, plus they morphed it into a disco Gt car that was relatively comfy.

    the C5 was really a all new vette and a contender again, the C6 and C7 derivatives fo the C5.

    If the C8 is done roght it will be a hit like the C5.

    lastly sales figures form the 60's should also take into account total vehicle sales in those years compared to now. We might then view the C2 as a relative sucess, and see that nothing really matches the C3
     
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  15. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior
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    jimmyb, let me help you. So since your are a strict numbers guy I went to the authority on all things Corvette that are not associated with jimmyb who is the self proclaimed knowledge master on corvette (and I say that humbly) since my knowledge and ownership does not count.

    Here you go from Corvette Action Center: https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/c4prod.html

    And yes I do believe you skew things to your benefit or desire. I openly stated that the C4 fell off a cliff and its was not later on either as you try to imply. I just gave you facts from a highly reputable site (that I did not verify but went on reputation) and I can have a hissy fit in my thread if I like. Besides you don't question anything because you already know. Remember? So if you have to ask I guess your my problem, not really cause I could care less overall. I guess I should have typed this ALL IN CAPS TO GET MY POINT ACROSS. Maybe next time.

    Back on topic since reveal is coming soon....
     
  16. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    ^^^^
    Whatever.
    I disagreed with you. Nothing more. Nothing less. You got personal (and if you doubt THAT, go back and read my posts and your posts, IN ORDER) and I don't really care what you think you know, there was NO need for that.
    How about this...
    YOU WIN....I'm out, got better things to do like clean my combs...jeez...this place:rolleyes:
     
  17. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Eric.. i think this post is pretty accurate i also think the C5z06 was one of the great driving corvettes ..i also owned 2 C6 z06s they were pretty similiar but the c5 had the edge to my seat of pants feel. I also had a C6ZR1 and that was a fast car fun driving but the the C5Z06 was probably the better handler .. and yes i should have kept my 2013 427 conv. As that was a great looking and driving car......
    I do think the new c8 will do well if priced right and it will be...i hope so anyway...
    For info i have owned over 40 corvettes over the last 40 years every generation and most engine combinations except the C7 which was just not for me....although i still own 3 corvettes
     
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  18. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Just got to correct your numbers a little
    C2 was from 1963 till 1967
    C3 were from 1968 till 1982 and the ones from say 74 till 82 were low powered for sure
    C4 were from 1984 till 1996 and of these the 84 s were notso good and by far the best were the 1000 1996 grandsports
    C5 was from 1997 till 2004 with only a few 97s made
    C6 was from 2005 till 2013
     
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  19. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    C8 Grand Sport will be epic.
     
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  20. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    You quoted my post....:rolleyes:
    I stated that I was using the LAST 4 years of a generation....
     
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  21. PerKr

    PerKr Karting

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    It might be C4 all over again in the sense that this might be the blueprint for the next 4 generations of corvette (just look at the chassis and general design c4-c7). It will not be as long lived as the C4 though. And it will not be as successful in changing how people view the Corvette.
     
  22. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior
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    You know, I never thought of it like that but it does make sense. TIme will tell.
     
  23. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    The C5 - C7 is where the chassis were VERY similar. The C4 was very different, with one of the major complaints being the very high door sills making ingress/egress difficult. That was one of the C5's driving design orders...improve ingress/egress. Go get in and out of a C4, and then do the same in a C5 and you'll see what I mean.

    I think this shows it pretty well. You can see the seat bottom is about level with the door sill on the C4 and you can see how deep the foot well is verses the C5

    C4:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    C5:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    I see the incremental improvements, as being the natural order. And everyone could see, that the move to a ME, was the way to go.

    So while I applaud GM for the car revealed. I am looking forward to the advanced versions. On this new ME platform.

    Remember the rumors of a 1,000 HP reveal. And rumors that a 1,000 HP engine, was breaking things.

    I think it will be an entertaining future. And again, I'm happy for them. And for us!
     
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  25. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    #50 jimmyb, Jul 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
    The HiPo car "breaking things" (the engine twisting the chassis and breaking the back light) shows how silly the internet is. Here's the REAL story:
    Corvette and Cadillac were at VIR testing on the same day. They were changing out the back light on one of the Cadillac test cars and cracked the new one. This back light was discarded AT VIR and no one at GM picked it up and took it with them, So....some genius grabs the piece of broken glass and concocts the story that the HiPo C8's have so much power they are twisting the frame. It's an out and out LIE.

    Here's Tadge's interview in R&T, he explains it:

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a28433801/c8-corvette-mid-engine-engineering-design-interview/
     

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