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Will the Classiche Certification soon become de rigueur for the vintage Ferrari?

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by 512Tea Are, Dec 14, 2007.

  1. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Ferraristii Gentleman Comrades.

    Will the Classiche Certification becomes an essential prerequisite for the older Ferrari?

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
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  3. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    4,153
    It is already a prerequisite to participate in official fFerrari sanctioned concours, the first one being held during the 60th anniversary celebration in Maranello. I suspect that requirement will trickle down to all official Ferrari events.
    Edward
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I recently bought a 40 year old car from the original manufacturer. I am her first owner. Before delivery the manufacturer is gently cleaning her using Art Restoration techniques. They are replacing fluids and hoses. When I show her in Concours she will wear her original tires containing her original air.

    When I drive her she will wear newly cast wheels and new tires.

    This process has been documented by over 1500 photographs and a written record. Of course all of her paperwork is in order including the Original Bill of Sale from the Manufacturer directly to me.

    I'm hoping this will be enough to satisfy any Event that might wish to have her.

    As I am not planing to ever sell her, what prospective buyers might think isn't really an issue.
     
  5. turbos7903

    turbos7903 F1 Rookie

    Mar 16, 2006
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    delaware
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    jon walton
    Im confused... An original manufacture 40 yr old model??? What is that a new 911 Porsche? Jon in Delaware
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    A car manufactured 40 years ago retained by her manufacturer until I recently persauded them to allow me to bring her out into the world. I'm hoping her debut will be in April at Villa d'Este. More specific I can't be at this time.
     
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  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    47,423
    Texas!
    I hope not, but it really doesn't matter to me. I don't care for the concours game anyway.

    But, if I had a car with "stories," (and I don't), you bet I'd use this program to laundry my car. :)

    Dale
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,534
    Southern California
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    Joe Sackey
    Jim,

    Your unique situation where you can be sure your vehicles will never be sold, and the one-off car you mention really doesnt apply to the Classiche discussion at hand. This is because by virtue of the car's historical significance and rarity, a Certification is completley unneccesary to establish wether it conforms to the standard specification in which a particular series was built, and your personal position where you feel certain the car will never be sold renders any type of Certification redundant to you and your family.

    I have to agree that the documentation and photographs that accompany the car should be sufficient to gain it entry into any event anywhere. Its an instantly recognizable car which has remained with the manufacturer till recently so it clearly exists exactly as built.

    The discussion as to whether the Classiche Program will become de rigueur for vintage Ferraris really has relevance to production cars of which a significant (or at least limited) volume were produced, AND situations where the potential exists for the car to change hands one day - most Ferrari owners.

    BTW the car will indeed be a hit at Villa D'Este. Have fun...

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  10. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,288
    No such thing exists, and anyone who believes otherwise is simply dillusional :D:D:D

    I looked into the classique program, as I recently came into ownership of a such a car that is worthy of consideration. It occurred to me, that the value of the classiche program was at its absolute pinnacle the very moment before transferring title to the benefactor. Therefore I haven't embarked on such an adventure as of yet, because I plan to own and operate said vehicle for quite some undetermined amout of time.
     
  11. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade frefan,

    Indeed, a very good point. However, I am aware of an instance whereupon a motor car caught fire and I understand that the Classiche Certification was paramount in maximising the insurance payout for the mere cinders that remained. So, it could still be hugely advantageous to have the Classiche Certification performed however long one intends for the motor car to remain within one's custodianship.

    For myself, I just cannot see any disadvantages to the Classiche Certification survey. I am also a believer in looking after one's investments - whatever they may be. Experience has taught me that careful consideration and maintenance of one's tangible assets will always pay dividends in the long term.

    I suspect that 410SA may already be certified. I am able to confirm that I have been certified and of course the illustrious Joe Sackey is already certified. So, 410SA will you confirm, please, that you have been certified?

    Is there anyone else on here that hasn't been certified?

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
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  13. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
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    London UK
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    Stradman

    Graham I am not so sure there are only advantages. The CCS limits you to a large degree. i.e you cannot have anything but pirellis on the F40 if it is to pass. In my opinion there are now better rubbers out there than the pirellis and so in the real world provide more obvious benefits. Furthermore you cannot have any modification on the exhaust to improve both sound and flow and therefore unlock more of the engines potential. I am a believer that there are always improvements to the manufacturers specification(particularly on some models such as the F40) and therefore you are by and large restrained from extracting these. At the end of the day you have the car to satisfy yourself not any potential future buyer or anyone else.
     
  14. stradman

    stradman Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,272
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    Stradman

    BTW we are all certifiable but that is beside the point!!
     
  15. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade Stradman,

    The whole principle of the Classiche Certification is to provide Ferrari owners with a known set of parameters and which they may rely upon, as may subsequent custodians of the vehicle should it be sold.

    Many Ferrari's, not the least of which is the F-40 have been played around with and modified - no doubt with good intentions and I am not in any way inferring that a modified car should be avoided. However, and for myself, I would not wish to acquire a modified car or indeed one that has been molested. And you are perfectly correct in your assertion that should a car be fitted with a non-standard exhaust it will indeed fail the Classiche Certification survey. This proves just how thorough and stringent the Classiche Certification process is. And is this not what all Ferrastii would wish for? Surely they do not desire something that can be 'adjusted' to suit the foibles of any given owner? No, I do not think so. Therefore the Classiche Certification has to possess the utmost integrity, and it is my belief that it most certainly does.

    My understanding is that the Classiche Certification survey has no impact whatsoever upon the type of tyres fitted to the motor car. I can confirm that my car has Michelin Potenza tyres and which safely navigated it through the Classiche Certification process.

    All good wishes.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  16. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    "Is there anyone else on here that hasn't been certified?"

    Tea Are, I have not yet certified the F40. From what I read here, Classiche is a program for the nouveau riche who buy expensive but unimportant (even vulgar!) cars, and fancy themselves collectors - do I want to stand in line with them? As a man who can eye a weld or fastener from 50 paces and pronounce it fit or fake, a lifelong participant in the Ferrariverse, should I permit my seasoned judgment of my own cars to be second guessed? Should I permit a stranger to violate my cars, disassemble and photograph them? And the cost; why should I undertake the reallocation of assets necessary to create sufficient liquidity to participate in Classiche? These are hard questions, Tea Are, and yet you have found answers. How?
     
  17. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade WCH,

    Gwasshoppa, it is because I have been certified :) indeed, anyone who acquires an F-40 should be certified :) Those that haven't are simply mad :)

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Joe

    I have always found Ferrari very helpful in sourcing hard to get parts indeed they cast uprights for me from the original molds that helped me bring 0846 back from the dead before the Classiche Program existed. Once the Classiche program started up I had several helpful discussions with them and when I was last at the Factory I had a nice tour of Classiche and discussion with them. As I've said I think the work that they are doing is very cool. I think their restoration facility and rates are top knotch and fair. Their archives are obviously extremely important. They are not blindly slavishly adhering to the past. Roberto showed me a new 250 piston con rod that had been improved over the original one and I agree with the making those improvements. He showed me how exhaust systems that had originally been crooked had been made straight. BTW many famous Restorers follow this course as well. He also clearly stated that if a block for example had to be made new this was clearly visable to everyone as the classiche stamp was added to the number. Whether a "new" Classiche Block is "better" than a NOS Typo Correct Block is a very interesting question and one different people will answer in different ways. Ferrari Classiche like all thing is a growing thing. They are aware of this. There are questions that have to be answered such as have mistakes been made concerning cars that have passed through Classiche. Some of these questions are even before courts of law. These are complex issues and one should never forget that things are what they are not necessarily what people think they are. I'm glad Ferrari has set up Classiche. I think they are unquestionably providing a great service. Have they made innocent mistakes? Who there among us hasn't?

    Will

    The answer as always lies between.

    Best 2 All
     
  19. etienne

    etienne F1 Veteran

    Jan 21, 2006
    5,731
    Ferrari World...
    I 'm impatient to see that...
     
  20. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade Napolis,

    A very good post indeed adequately confirming your status as 'certified' :)

    All good wishes from England,

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  21. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    Astounding to read kind words about Classiche here! You mean, those of us who've submitted cars are not complete idiots?

    Perhaps the sarcasm of my prior post wasn't clear ....
     
  22. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,288
    More than one F40 has seen such a fate. Install a fire kit, thats what I did. Installation uses all existing mount points, not a single hole drilled or scratch made. And its blessed by the classiche department (I checked first). Oh yeah, its usually the cats that start the fire ;)
     
  23. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade frefan,

    I too have the plumbed in fire extinguishing system which was no deterrent whatsoever to the Classiche Certification survey.

    Soon now we shall have the full blown Classiche Certification section on the Forum with all of us chaps becoming fully certified. And where's RufMD . . . . :)

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  24. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,391
    West Coast
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    A
    FWIW I am not joining in the communal drinking of the Classiche Kool-Aid. I believe the money is far better served advancing the career and reputation of a wonderful chef and his restaurant somewhere.
    My F40 remains an F40, with or without Certification, and I haven't seen any evidence anywhere that the process makes the car faster of more beautiful. Indeed I believe that the Classiche stamp on "NOS" parts installed on a vintage car will probably detract from the car's value in the eyes of some of the very particular judges at the highest level.

    So to answer the question by our "illustrious" English contributor, none of my very lovely and AFAIK, very desirable old Ferraris are Classiche Certified nor will they be while I own them.
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    As always good thoughts. I do think some parts, such as the P4 uprights that they made for me, are different than a newly cast block where an original Typo block is still obtainable or the original damaged block is repairable. I recently saw a block repaired with ultra high pressure plasma technology that was very impressive although admittedly not period correct.
     
  26. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    Dear Comrade Joe Sackey,

    410SA has come back on here railing against our wonderful Classiche Certification. I thought I'd won him over. However, I need reinforcements. Will you kindly return at your earliest convenience, please, thus to resolve matters before everything becomes totally out of control. I am sure that you can win him over - he just needs a little reassurance from a fellow American before he commits himself totally to the Classiche Certification programme.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  27. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,288
    Alex I agree 100%.

    Question - Suppose one had an 'incident' (not me, and knock on wood and cross my fingers that I never do), I wonder if sending the car back to Maranello and have the factory Classiche department sign off on the repairs would be a good idead? Or would they not do that?
     
  28. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    For an F 40? I think that would be a good idea. For a 250 GTO???
     

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