Will the depreciation of the F355 affect the 348?

The prices of F355 in the last 4-6 months have REALLY come down in price. I have seen them selling in the 50K range lately which I never saw before. Do you think with these prices coming down like they are, that the 348 is going to take that kind of downward turn also. If you could buy an F355 in the 50K-70K price range, would you still pay between 40K-65K for a 348?

 

Granted that the price of the 355 will come down a bit but, any 355 that's in the $50K range has ISSUES. I don't think you will find a decent car any where near that price. More like high $70's for the Berlinetta and low $80's for the spider. It's likely that spending somewhere in the 50's for the initial purchase price will be the cheapest day of ownership. It can be easy to spend another $15-25K to make a car right. Better to start with a good car.

 

Absolutely. The 430 will push down 360 prices significantly, thereby dropping 355 prices and this trickles down. Of course, prices on 348s will not drop anywhere near as much as prices on 360s. I think within a year you will see 360 prices down by $30-$40K depending on model and year, with 355s losing $10-$20K and 348s losing about $10K.

 

I'm not so sure - 430s are selling for way, way over list & are sold out for pretty much the entire production - I would guess they will continue to command a silly premium for a good while yet - which leaves plenty of space for 360 prices to stay reasonably firm.

That said 360 prices are dropping a bit as the cars accumulate age & mileage & besides that there are a lot of them about & available for sale - its much more of a buyer's market but I don't see any way or reason for 360 prices to drop $30-$40 K in a year. $10-$15K maybe - but we shall see!

 

I think the 348s have just about hit bottom. Might come down a tad, but not much

 

I agree and maybe $10,000 for the 355 and $15-$20 for the 360. 308 and 328, no affect.

 

The 355's will push the 348's down ever-so-slightly, perhaps 5 to 10 percent. I think once we get deep into the 430 model, there will only be a 10 to 15 percent premium that the 355 will fetch over a 348, much like the price relationship between a 308 and a 328. Afterall, the 355 was simply an updated 348, just as the 328 was an updated 308, the 430 an updated 360, and so on.

 

Here's my (informed ) opinion:

360 coupes will not fall below 110K at any time in the near future...

355 coupes will not fall below 65K at any time in the near future...

And 348s tb/ts will not fall below 45K at any time in the near future.

 

I don't disagree. What is interesting is that there isn't much of a price premium between a 348tb and a ts, much unlike the 355 coupe and the 355 GTS. Thoughts?

 

Husker, you bought yours for under 45K didnt you?

 

Yeah, quite a bit under that. It's been about a year and a half though, and I've never seen one go for that level since. The fellow I bought mine from needed immediate cash, and I bought it on the spot with no PPI. The "PPI" 348's out there I would think would be bringing upper $40's minimum, but I could be wrong. Mine is getting ready to roll 40K so I figure a $2-3K ding on that.

Your thoughts on the 348 values? I have no idea what the "selling" prices are these days, but sure would be curious to know.

 

Usual supply & demand issues. 360's will drop by more than 355's simply because more were built. I believe about 8K 348's were built versus 11K 355's & 15K 360's. Here in the UK, a number of 355's (LHD) have been priced at £35,000 - £ 40,000 - Red LHD 355 spider £39,995. That's good RHD 348 money, and the 348 seems to be holding their price.

 

when i ever sell my 348 , i plan on parting it out , because , from the cost of the little fix up parts i have purchased so far , i figure i can get about 100k parting it out rather than whole .. ! lol

 

You can get a decent TS now for about 45K, if you look...Martin has got a nice 94 spider right now on Ebay....only 5 hours left and it is at $49,188...its no reserve...hope the spiders arent taking that big of a dive...

heres the link...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4552407021&category=6212

 

I might be completely off, but in several years I could see the transmission as being a major factor in the selling price of the 355. IMO, manuals will sell for more than F1 cars. Given the difficulty (impossibility?) of servicing the F1 cars at home, the "car guys" that will eventually own these cars will want manuals.

That aside, the 355 will always command a premium over a similar condition 348, my guess will be at least 20%. There are many pros & cons for each model, but probably more pros for the 355 overall.

Perhaps another interesting question would be where the 348 & 355 fit into the range of old Ferrari models. Due to the expensive engine out services I could see them like the Testarossa or 400 is seen today: as a desirable car which costs a fortune to maintain, whether it is deserved or not. The 360 (esp. 6-speed) will always have a big premium over either. The 328 may also in 10 years.

One more thing. Given the current escalation of the horsepower race between manufacturers, all of these cars may be viewed a beautiful but underpowered sports cars. It would certainly not be fair, but look at prices on the 308GTSi (2 valve) models. In 10 years there will be a a lot of similarly priced sporty cars with 450+ hp sitting on used lots.

 

Remember, though, that there are no records of the 30K service in 02-03. If it had the records, I would think it would be in the $50's pretty easy.

 

Don't take offence but I think you're missing the point why people buy certain Ferraris

The difference between say a 360 and 348 is that a 348 is instantly recogniseable as a Ferrari - ie you don't need to look twice, versus a 360 which takes a little time, I believe this emotional view of Ferraris ie, like the 246 Dino will count for a lot when it comes to Ferrari values - you don't look at a Dino's performance when it comes to buying one, and just as importantly, Dino's cost a fair bit to maintain - so 348's & 355's will keep reasonable values

 

I don't think that you have to be an actual owner to understand why people buy certain cars. FWIW the 348ts is one of the best-looking Ferraris IMO. However, looking at other mass-produced Ferraris (perfect example is the TR), the maintenance "horror stories" whether exaggerated or not do have some impact on the demand for the car. The 348 or 355 will always cost more to service at a dealer/independant than a 328. The evolution of the V8 engines (hyd lifters in the 355, no engine out in 360, no belts at all in the 430) is going more toward 100,000 mile tuneup type maintenance. In fact, the model year 2015 Ferrari V8 probably will have 100,000 miles as its first tuneup at the rate they are going. That will only make $4-7k every 30,000 miles seem even tougher to swallow for potential owners of a 348 or 355.

That of course does not mean that they are not desirable cars, far from it. It is just that given the number of performance cars available in the near future from several manufacturers, the demand for a car which has high maintenance requirements coupled with at least a 100 hp deficit, will be reduced. Keep in mind it is purely the perception drivers may have. Given the horsepower war, young drivers today will have been raised on 500 hp, and no doubt their feeling will be that the 348 with "only" 300 hp is not enough. It happens now, 250 hp is generally considered the bare minimum for any "performance car".

I agree with you, the 246 Dino is probably not purchased for its V6. Instead the body shape and relative scarcity of the car is what helps its collectibility. The Mondial 8 might be a more analogous example of how the cars will be viewed with respect to straight line performance.

Think ahead 10 years. You will have 20,000 360's. 20,000 430's. 20,000 of the replacement for the 430 in a few years. That is a lot of cars for potentially a small number of buyers. The prices for the 348 and 355 still have farther to fall until bottom. My guess is a decent (current maintenance, 50k miles, everything works) 348 will bottom at $35k for the tb or ts, $42k for the spyder. The 355 in similar condition with be $45k for a berlinetta and GTS, and about $55k for a spyder.

 

I gotta chime in on this one. I would think your theory would work for other model cars. I dont htink it will hold true for a ferrari, if it does, then ferrari will become another vette, or porche boxter/944 example. According to yoru theory the 3x8 series would be worht 10-15k then because the 2valve only has 200 hrp. I would figure between that car and the 308gtb, and the 400i all these owners will be selling parts instead of cars. I dont see it happening my freind. Too many proud (rich) owners out there that would retain their values of the cars. If my TR ever dropped to 25k-30k, Im gonna have the most expensive flower box in my front yard Canada has seen if it craps out.

As for the orginal question, I think the 348 based on its lower production numbers will not decrease much further, and the 355 and 360 will hurt much more depreciation.

 

Unless you are talking about a car that was made in such low production numbers that we are measuring it in the hundreds, I think it is silly to assume that production numbers will have much to do with value in the future. There were PLENTY of 348s made, and the fact that they were made in lower numbers than the 355 or 360 is not going to insure that their prices don't fall. Just my opinion. Eventually they will all be old enough that they will be rare and the prices will go back up again. That probably won't happen for 360s until about 30 years from now, but it WILL happen, unless we have no gas to put in them!

I like the 348 a lot. But I like the 355 more, and the 360 more than that. They get better and better. For the same money, I would buy a 360 over a 355, and a 355 over a 348. While not everyone will feel the same way, I would bet that 75% of the Ferrari buyers out there would agree. That means that 355s will always cost more than 348s, and 360s will always cost more than 355s. I don't think production numbers would enter into it unless there were only 500 348s made or something like that. There were thousands of each model made. None of them are rare by Ferrari standards.

I think 348s will still come down more, especially when the 430 starts to saturate the market. Guys with 355's will move up to the 360 when the prices drop. The 360s are going to take huge hit. Most of the guys who can afford the 360s are going to be able to get 430s, and they will dump the 360s. That means the market will be flooded with them. Prices will drop. Guys that have 355s will now be able to afford 360s and that will cause a larger number of 355s to be available, though not as many as 360s. The prices on 355s don't have as far to drop, and won't drop as much as 360s. Lots of people with 348s will get the 355s and the 348s will drop as well. We will see 348s in the high 30's in 2 years. I'm still on the fence if 328s have hit rock bottom, but they are close. 308s are as low as they will go, and in fact I think the early carb ones are starting to climb. Seems like 20-25 years old is the magic number for "rock bottom".

Of course this is all speculation. What the hell do I know?

Birdman

 

The car Martin was selling....94 348 went for 58K

 

I think there will come a time when a 308/328 will be worth more than a 348. This will be because of the lower cost of maintenance, and the more 'classic' driving feel of the transverse V8s.

I suspect at this time the 355 will still be worth more than a 348 because it's a better car, but costs the same to run?

It's just my guess.

 

How does the driving "feel" differ between a transverse and longitudinal engine postion? I have owned a 308, 328 and 355 and have not noticed such a difference...but I'm just a "hack".

 

Oh yeah, the 348 will be the cheapest of all of the production Ferraris. Sounds perfectly logical to me.
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Well, assuming no "funny bidding" (quite a stretch to assume on ebay), $58K without the 30K major would be pretty consistent with the market. Dump $5K into the 30K service and there's your $63K 348 spider.