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Williams F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by BJMoravek, Mar 3, 2011.

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  1. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    Kubica retired from the race so that Williams could "save parts"?
    Light a candle for Williams.
     
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  2. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Better "light" the whole factory and ask the insurance for a refund!
     
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  3. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    As I said in the other thread, this reminds me of the final days of Minardi when they ran out of power steering units to fit onto their cars. Williams were late to winter testing and then had parts availability problems throughout testing....what little testing they did do. I wondered years ago right on this forum how long Williams can survive without an annual pile of prize money, and this is where they are. One more season like this, and they are done for as a team unless some unicorn comes waddling along with giant pots of gold to dosh out.

    IIRC, no team has survived parts shortages for long.
     
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  4. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    Interesting Beyond the Grid interview with Ralf Schumacher this week. It sounds like Frank and Patrick lost the plot in the early 2000s and could not produce a good car or take any input from BMW. Despite having a significant horsepower advantage of at least 60 BHP over the rest of the field their egos were the main problem. The dire situation they are currently in did not happen overnight, the rot has b en slowing decaying the team for quite some time.
     
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  5. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's always been the Williams way or the highway. No shock that everyone has always taken the highway.

    Claire gets (and deserves) a lot of stick for the state that Williams is in, but she did inherit a dysfunctional organization that has produced no results in 15 seasons of racing outside of one joke of a win. That she has done nothing to change it is all on her shoulders. 15 seasons of no results points to a problem of upper management that is systemic in nature and will not be changed until the Williams name no longer covers the front of their HQ.

    I watched that Williams documentary and was appalled they made no mention of Senna. Claire and Frank tried to paint themselves as romanticists going racing, but the omission of Senna reveals exactly what they are all about.

    Williams as an F1 team will vanish sooner rather than later, and no one will miss them.
     
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  6. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    I'll miss them....
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    A clash of personality between Patrick Head, and Mario Thyssen, the BMW guy, was the root of the problem..
    BMW had taken a stake in Williams, but the 2 sides were working against each other.
    Mario Thyssen defended the interests of his employer in Munich; Patrick Head didn't want any interference from the Bavarian .
    Thus Williams lost technical support from BMW, and BMW lost interest in the partnership to the point of leaving.
     
  8. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yeah, well, you cut your teeth there. If you want to relive your youth, you can always hire someone to pretend to be Patrick Head and breathe moistly over your shoulder as you work out an engineering challenge.
     
  9. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    Wow! Not sure your response was "tongue in cheek" or meant to be a bit snide.

    Yea I cut my teeth there, did a car that won LeMans. So my experience was pretty good.

    But I remember being there at work on a Sat or Sunday and wandering up to Frank Williams office. He would call me in and we would spend half the day talking about airplanes. (Frank loved aviation) Frank was a gentle, sweet and soft spoken man. Enjoyed every minute with him.

    And Patrick Head! Quite a guy. Gruff, didn't suffer fools gladly. Frankly most of the drivers were a little scared of him. But he was very supportive and helpful of his engineers. He would check out what I was designing-say the oil tank. He would look it over and make some suggestions and then say he will make a few notes on his experiences with the design of oil tanks. He would go away and come back a few hours later with 4-5 pages of notes, sketches, etc. Basically his full knowledge and history of designing oil tanks. (And there is a lot more to them than you can imagine!).

    So here is one of the best F1 designers ever, maybe in the top 3 when I was there and he would give me, in written form, all the secrets and design knowledge he had.

    And while there at Williams they people working there were a great bunch of people.

    So yea, if they go away I will miss them. And Formula One and Racing will be the less if they go away.
     
  10. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sorry Brian your experience is insufficient to comment. After all Korr did watch a documentary:)
     
  11. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Not at all snide! I remember you talking about working there years ago and hoped you'd add some real knowledge to the subject.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #587 william, Oct 19, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    Interesting. I take your word for it.
    Seen from outside, Williams (the team) had an habit of treating its drivers badly.
    The "sacking" of Damon Hill, and Mansell just after they won titles for Williams comes to mind.
    But even Prost, Coulthard, Montoya or Zanardi, didn't have a good word to say about the atmosphere there.
    In different interviews, Ralf Schumacher called the team unfriendly, and Mark Webber "icy", and both agree that it wasn't special..
    I always assumed this was Frank Williams' way to manage drivers, but now I am not so sure.
    Maybe that had more to do with Patrick Head's attitude?
     
  13. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Whatever the past experiences were, the team is a long way from the victories of their better days. And as far as F1 today goes, they bring nothing to the table. Their cars are rolling hazards and should banned, and the team should fold up shop and quit.
     
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  14. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

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  15. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Villeneuve also slammed the “socialist” approach by F1 to distribute revenue more equally across the teams under the new Concorde Agreement.

    “To me, it’s pure socialism,” Villeneuve vented. “F1 deserves better than that.
     
  16. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Past ex F1 winners, Lotus and Brabham comes to mind
     
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  17. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

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    It would be a shame to lose Williams. I saw the documentary also and it didn't bother me that they didn't mention Senna. I mean, sure, Frank gave Senna a F1 test, and they finally hired him, but it seemed to me that the goal of the documentary was to look at Frank's life and the company. Senna is a very small part of that, and I don't think they talked much about any other Williams drivers either.
     
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  18. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Honestly, as much as i am nostalgic, f.1 doesn't need this Williams, if they have to park a car to save the parts, they should just stay home and stop embarassing their legacy.
     
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  19. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    The company missed a chance to sell to BMW. They are worth far less now.
     
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  20. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    Not sure why ppl are speaking in future tense about Williams leaving F1. I've missed them since a decade past...the Williams I fondly remember has long left the sport.

    Can't wait to see them stage a comeback, as unlikely as that may be.
     
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think Frank Williams' pride made him miss the boat completely.
    I suppose BMW was offereing good money, and he turned them down.
    The team has been struggling since, and is leaving on borrowed time, IMO.
     
  22. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    Hey--If Williams wants to race, can afford to do it, and the FIA is good with it, as are the rest of the current F1 teams then really you, me, anyone at FerrariChat really has no right or standing to suggest that they should simply "go away". Based on the logic used by some regards Williams there are 3-4 times in the past 30 years that Ferrari should have simply shut their racing doors. I remember many a time when Ferrari was about as big an embarrassment in racing as could be found. Don't remember ever hearing any one on this board clamoring for them to "go away".

    There is a term for this: It is called hypocrisy.
     
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  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, I am no tifosi, but I don't think you can compare Scuderia Ferrari to any other team.
    Apart from McLaren, perhaps, Ferrari is the only team that survived successfully following the departure of its founder.
    Cooper didn't, nor Lotus, and neither Brabham, etc ... I think Williams will follow the same path when Frank goes.
     
  24. LMPDesigner

    LMPDesigner F1 Rookie
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    Why not? There were any number of times when Ferrari was about the worst team on the grid. Based on the logic used for Williams-should not the same logic be used for Ferrari?
    That is the question. Not whether Ferrari survived it's fonder. A red herring relative to the question asked.
     
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  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Did Ferrari ever finish last in the World Constructors Championship? I think not.
    Teams that had that misfortune don't tend to survive.
    I personally don't care much if Williams survive or not, but I can't see them bringing much to the racing.
     

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