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Winter tires for FF - what brand/model?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Bamsefar, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    405
    Sweden
    So I have a set of Pirelli Zotto Zero on my winterwheels. They are a bit old, and I will replace them this winter - however I have no clue about what to replace them with. As I might have mentioned I swap my summer tires from Pirelli to Michelin PS4s - and well I am thinking of the same kind of swap for winters. But I have no reference, no clue, if Michelins (what model?) are better than a new set of Pirelli Zotto Zero?

    Any thoughts on wintertires are welcome :)
     
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  3. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,527
    I have Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4. There is also the new Pirelli Sottozero 3. Michelin is V speed rated, whereas Pirelli is W rated, but that difference likely matters only to someone in the winter with a death wish.
     
  4. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I have Michelin Pilot Alpin which are Porsche spec as that is all I could find to fit my winters. They are good tires, but I actually think I prefer the SottoZero as a winter performance tire. I think the Pirelli have a stiffer sidewall and I feel (marginally) more confident when the random bump and small pothole arrives. I think I will wear out the PA4 this winter and next year I'll make the switch.
     
  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Before recommending anything, what conditions are you running in? I see you're out of Scandinavia like me, but if you're in the north, you'll need entirely different tyres compared to someone in Malmø, where winters are pretty much just cold and rainy these days. If you live up bear Stockholm for example and see snow on a regular basis, choose a tyre developed for where you are.
     
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  6. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I should say my winter conditions are often freezing and below but not much snow on the roads themselves- its often just loose dirt, grit, road salt. Most snow is cleared off my area roads very quickly. The roads can remain wet and slick with the occasional slush.
     
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  8. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    405
    Sweden
    Thanks for all replies :)

    Well I live in Stockholm, and as Caeruleus11, most of the time I see dirt, grit and road salt. And well the snow is NOT cleared that good here in Stockholm, last winter was extremly bad - the only roads cleared was for bicycles and no one rides a bicycle in snowstorm here in Sweden. However the ONLY road that got cleared was the bicycle roads... So yes I need a tire that can work on snowy roads, and handle rain and slush. Temperature seems to be between +5c to -30c - so there is no clear winter kind of climate, it is nowdays "all over the place".
     
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  9. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    Well for those snowy and subzero condition, I would go with the Continental Wintercontact TS 860 S without even thinking twice about it. It is made for nordic conditions more than dry road performance winter driving. I've had some pretty "interesting" drives in Norway on that tyre, and that was really impressive - and I'm a studded Nokian fan, I don't impress easily when it comes to winter tyres:D

    While the tyre is available in OE size, you might want to consider running a 235 in the front rather than 245. It will "plow" better than a 245 and it will put more pressure on the patch which is what you want for snow and ice.

    They are not the most quiet tyre you'll find and they will not set any Ring lap records any time soon, but boy are they a fantastic real winter tyre.
     
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  10. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    405
    Sweden
    A runflat winter tire?
     
  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    I was actually not aware of it being a runflat. From a performance and comfort standpoint, it was not something I noticed.

    With the experiences I've had with that tyre, I would not worry about it. If anything, I see it as a benefit. It will be less susceptible to pinch flats which are a real concern in snowy conditions. I'm sure most of us have hit or bumped a kerb or small obstacle lurking under at smooth white layer of snow at some point, or gotten into a slide during a turn that ended up kerbing the tyre. On low profile tyres I see it as added insurance when conditions are rough.

    Runflats have come a long way, and the few cars I've experienced with their modern SSR runflat system has worked well.

    Fwiw, tyre choice can be as personal and subjective as choice of shoes and underwear. But from my experience both with the TS 860 and TS 860S, I think it's a great tyre.

    If you don't like the idea of a runflat, I think I look into the Michelin Pilot Alpin 5. Haven't tried it, but Michelin usually does well, and the "non-PA" tyres are a bit more snow and ice oriented than the PA tyres.

    What I mean is this.
    The Alpin 4 for example comes in two flavours. One is the Pilot Alpin 4 and the other is the Pilot Alpin PA4. The latter is targeted more towards cleared roads that are cold, but either dry or wet, with maybe a hint of snow and ice here or there, wereas the former is a less performance oriented tyre better capable of dealing with snow covered roads and ice. Had you been in Malmø for instance, I'd say the PA4 or Sottos would be great for those wet and cold conditions where winter temps are more in the +5 to -5 area and little to no snow etc.
     
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  13. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    405
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    Well I got offered (Autoropa, the authorized dealer/importer here in Sweden) Michelin A4s from 2017.23 (rear) and 2018.04 (front) - that is a bit over 2 years old tires - seems a bit old... The price was not that great either - more or less full price (20k sek), and Pirelli Sottozero 2 just a bit more (25k sek).

    It seems only Michelin A4 and Pirelli Sottozero 2 are the only one approved from Ferrari?
     
  14. Decide

    Decide Rookie

    Sep 23, 2019
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    Sweden
    Hi Bamse, I had a few M cars running on PA4's here in southern Sweden.

    All my sets were purchased online, if I recall correctly from däckonline, was cheaper than offered in physical stores and always arrived quite fresh (max 3 months old). I know a few others that went this way and got fresh tires, if it's interesting for you I can go over my emails and verify if it was däckonline or some other site.

    Heading to Autoropa today with the wife to check some FFs out förresten :)
     
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  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    If you prefer the Michelin stuff, you can get the Michelin Pilot Alpin 5 for a great price here as suggested above.

    Fronts.

    https://www.dackonline.se/rshop/Dack/Michelin/Pilot-Alpin-5/245-35-R20-95V-XL---NA0--mit-Felgenschutzleiste--FSL-/R-377607

    Rears.
    https://www.dackonline.se/rshop/Dack/Michelin/Pilot-Alpin-5/295-35-R20-105W-XL---MO1--mit-Felgenschutzleiste--FSL-/R-377461

    The Michelin and Pirelli winter tyres are unlike the summer tyres, not OE specific tyres developed and homologated for the car. They are more a reccomendation than approved tyres.
     
  16. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
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    Too bad can't get Conti Wintercontact here in the States.

    Sorry going off topic: So it wouldn't mess up or stress the system and PTU to use F245/R285 combo, right? Dealer, as expected, told me to stick to oem, either 245/295 or 235/285.
     
  17. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    pirellis were fantastic. i have michelins on my new snow wheels for this season. cant imagine there will be much of a difference
     
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  18. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    I’ve put Blizzak run flats on my wife’s Lusso.
    Lots of potholes around here and last thing I want is her being stranded on the side of the road in a Ferrari.
     
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  19. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I would doubt using 245 front and 285 rear would mess with the systems. Often times the dealer simply has no incentive to deviate from the specific printed materials. I hate how the 235s look on the front wheels. But they are working for me.

    How is the ride? I think this is a good idea.
     
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  20. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    557
    The Netherlands
    I've been investigating this in the Netherlands where we tend to get cold dry winters but I want the option of tackling the odd snow fall as well. In addition, it would be good to have the confidence to take the FF to a ski resort and cope with any snowfalls there. I have suspension lift so the FF is technically a more capable car in the snow than my RWD family saloon!

    What I've noticed is that the only W rated tyres in the Ferrari suggested winter widths of 235 and 285 are the PA4 and Sottozero3. Both these tyres are quite old designs (c 2012/13). The TS860 seems to be a newer design but is only available in 235 but not 285 width. In order to fit W rated TS860, you need to run the summer widths of 245 and 295.

    I'm reluctant to fit anything less than a W rated tyre as it is likely to invalidate my insurance if I deviate from the manufacturer's specification and I am also wary of fitting the wider TS860 although leaning towards it from a technical/performance/magazine/user rating perspective.

    I guess what I'm wondering is - is it worth pursuing the TS860 or would the compromise of wider TS860s offset the benefit vs narrower PA4s or Sottozero3s?
     
  21. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    405
    Sweden
    With no reference to insurance:

    A narrow winter tire will always be superior to a wider winter tire. As Il Co-Pilota pointed out earlier, a more narrow tire will "plow" better. In the best of worlds 185 studded tire might be the best - but it will very hard to get it working on a FF, so everything is somewhat of a compromise.
     
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  22. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2015
    557
    The Netherlands
    Thanks Bamsefar - It seems to be a toss up with no clear winner between the PA4 and Sottozero3 then.

    I’ve gone for the PA4 purely on price and an undercurrent of internet opinion which seems to prefer the PA4.
     
  23. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    405
    Sweden
    For the record, so to speak, I will change to Michelin Pilot Alpin 4.
     

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