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Would Shumi have let RB win if...

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by 96cobrakid, Sep 13, 2004.

  1. 96cobrakid

    96cobrakid Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    791
    St. Louis, Mo
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I think it is obvious to everyone that RB and MS were on the same team and let RB have the win. Not taking away from the driver skill of either, but i think in an all out battle, MS could take the win. Question being, would MS have taken the win if he had won every race to this point or let the home crowd see RB win?
     
  2. sindo308qv

    sindo308qv F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,518
    miami.fl.
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    sindo
    I still think he would have let him win at least one! Did you notice in the interview after the race when they asked him about MS closing in? He said something about both having to conserve thier engines.Yeah right.MS could've passed or at the very least attempted a pass if he wanted to.
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    MS will always take the win when ever there is a sniff of it ... that is the difference between the 2. The idea of MS playing team orders is like asking you not to have sex ever again ... impossible.

    Yes he has done it once in the past ... but that was under huge pressure after the team order balls up at Austria.

    Pete
     
  4. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,732
    Nova Scotia Canada
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    Neil

    MS without a doubt let RB coast home. I'm not sure if MS could have made the pass, but no one does. I think they walked the cars in to victory lane.
     
  5. Cheetah

    Cheetah Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2004
    342
    Charlotte
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    Alan
    The two were on such different race strategies that it is impossible to know. Only Rubens, Michael, Ross & Jean really know, but Ruben's body language on the podium says it was his win and not a 'give-me'.
     
  6. LopeAlong

    LopeAlong Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    461
    West of St. Louis
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    Jim
    Man, this kind of talk pisses me off! Why is it when MS slows after the last pit and RB catches him up - it's because that is what happened. THen why is it when RB does the same and MS catches up - it was the team orders that prevented him from passing? MS gifted the win, etc., etc. BS! Did anyone see the lap times RB was cranking out? There is NO WAY MS could have caught him if there had been no team orders. He was too far back and when he did better RB's times it was only by a couple of hundreds. Give credit where credit is due. RB smoked the field and he deserves an atta-boy! He drove a hell-of-a race!
    Jim
     
  7. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    I think MS could have won it if he had made the decision to. He made it through the whole field, do you think that he couldn't have just finished the job if he really wanted to? I'll bet there won't be many more races that you'll see this happen and that is what will prove the point.
     
  8. VROOM!!!

    VROOM!!! Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2004
    2,478
    Los Angeles
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    Armen
    I really agree! I watched the whole race and RB was tearing that track up...
     
  9. tjacoby

    tjacoby F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,856
    Vancouver Canada
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    tj
    standard policy - no racing after the last pit stop. RB cranked some great laps, was running well, and would have kept his line. MS wanted to be on the podium with Rubens and not in the weeds walking to the pits. MS cooperates because RB is the "best 2nd driver" in the Ferrari camp for what, 20 years? no complaining (well - almost none), supports the team completely, and still brings in the points.

    Now, if Michael hadn't gone and spun out and started from the back of the pack, and if Rubens hadn't needed that extra pit stop, it would of been a much less exciting race. Love those Bridgestones - pick 1) slide out on the first 2 & turns, or 2) pit for new tires after 3 laps. Some choice in those exact conditions!
     
  10. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
    6,140
    ATL/CHS/MIA
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    Jason
    RB Deserved it. I think RB won the race fair and square. I think RB gets told all the time to let Schumi win because Schumi brings in the BUCKS!!! RB is in a good position in life. I wouldn't fight it!!! But now that Schumi has it clinched Ferrari says go for it. Schumi said that he would help RB win if he could.

    Give RB the benefit of the doubt. He's a great driver. He beat every other car out there. He beat JPM!!! and that makes me happy.
     
  11. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Earlier in the race, one Ferrari did pass another. Why? Some great pass move on someone trying to block. NO! He just let him by. Why? Because at that point in the race, one of them was going faster than the other AND they are on the same team.

    I often go out to the track and I sometimes pass people and sometimes get passed. In all cases, they are easy passes. Why? Because we can tell who is going faster and we ABSOLUTELY do not want to risk each others cars.

    So, now here we are, 10 laps left to go... RB has the fastest laps of the day and is in position to lay down more such laps. MS has been fast, but not quite as fast as RB. But they are in positions 1 and 2. As a team, they could risk both 1 and 2 by encouraging both to run hard to the finish. Or as a team, they could ensure a 1-2 finish by conceding that RB has won the race to that point.

    Now, had MS not made a pair of mistakes in the opening lap chicanes, he may have been in front of RB at that point and would have been dubbed the winner.

    Think of it this way...

    As a team, they could have an agreement that whoever is in front in the last stint when they are in 1-2 positions wins. Its a race to that point... but after that, they cruise to 1-2 victory.

    Is that so bad? I don't think so. As hard as it is to pass cleanly in cars with different performance characteristics, it would be nearly impossible to pass cleanly in two nearly identical cars. Mid-race there is variation in fuel load; at the end of the race, even the fuel loads are identical. It would be foolish for teammates not to make the above agreement, IMHO.
     
  12. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
    6,140
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    Jason
    RB has come in first and second more than any other drivers have come in first except for his teammate. Doesn't that make him the second best F1 driver in the world?
     
  13. LopeAlong

    LopeAlong Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    461
    West of St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I agree, but for RB to establish some credibility it WAS bad. In this case, I wish MS would have said (like in the past), " Rubins was too fast to catch today." That would have have made the win legit and the RB bashers would have nothing to say.
    Jim
     
  14. 96cobrakid

    96cobrakid Formula Junior

    May 24, 2004
    791
    St. Louis, Mo
    Full Name:
    Chris
    i wasn't trying to take away from RB win, he did some kick ass driving. Was just a thought that went through my head
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Er, no! Crazy logic.

    Kimi and Alonso are obviously a better drivers than RB, but their cars suck.

    Pete
     
  16. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Rookie

    RB was the better man and I think clearly should of won. Next week MS would may easily beat him at the same track. On that day RB deserved the win and posted the fastest times. The idea of team orders and not screwing the 1, 2 spot is also true. RB clearly pulled over for MS last year and on any given day I do Believe RB can win. Besides his racing skill , he seems like just a great guy with a huge heart. I just hate to think anyone doesn't want to give him the credit he deserves.
     
  17. doug328

    doug328 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 11, 2004
    1,580
    The Space Coast, FL
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    Doug B
    I'll give RB the credit he deserves, he won that race fair and square. Sure MS might have pushed harder and challenged him at the end, but what driver would risk loosing a 1 - 2 team finish with only a few laps to go, by trying to overtake his teammate. To much can happen: mechanical breakdown, shunt into the wall or grass or a collision with his teammate. I don't think you can say that MS let RB win, Any driver for any team who found himself in that position would have done the same things as MS.
     

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