Would you buy a 355 with bronze valve guides?

Yogi would be proud

 

Brings up a good point....what is the prevalence of valve guide failure on the earlier 355s? 1 in 10, 1 in 5, 1 in 3?

 

I agree it is not a bad idea. I feel that overall condition is most important. I wouldn't pass on a super clean car because it needs or might need guides, I would just fix it.

Good to know for bargaining power but I also feel like you can miss out on certain cars by the time spent to arrange and get a ppi while someone else realizing how clean it is just risks it and pulls the trigger.

 

According to Ferrari Life Buyers Portfolio 20% occurred in the 1995 models and a small number of '97s and '98s.

 

You can get a pretty good idea about the guides by looking at louthancomp.com or if you use Facebook (I had to as this site is really only able to be viewed via fb) TEM performance machine shop. These guys make their own guides...Louthan does his in manganese bronze....not sure what material Rich uses at TEM but I had to wait for him to manufacture some. These guys know what they're doing.

 

I agree that the overall condition of the car is very important and if the numbers are not good, this could be used as a bargaining point.

This was one of my initial concerns about the 95, but I would rather deal with this than some of the other alarm issues that the later cars can have.

 

Thanks for the info. There is a member(John) on here who had made some improved water pumps. I think there was a possibility of his company making some high quality guides. I know he was looking into it.

 

As ****ty as it seems, the head removal and valve work was much cheaper than I anticipated (I'm getting the big service right now) and its money well spent as these are surprisingly reliable engines and it is definitely a selling point. It also offers peace of mind...I want to enjoy the car. When I dealt on the car, I factored into the offer the price of a major service and went from there. I'm still happy I didn't go with Porsche/Aston/Vette...nothing against them, they just don't have the charisma....the f-car has this in spades but tempered with the occasional drama

 

You lost me comparing a top of the engine rebuild vs alarm repair. HUGE difference in the cost of these two faults. If a standard major costs...$9,000...wonder what it is when the heads have to come off and rebuilt...double?... vs $1000 at most for all new fobs and alarm speaker. You might of had me if talking top hydraulics though! Either way...both should be taken into account when buying one of these cars....as well as headers, SDL and CEL codes, etc...

 

I had all of those issues John! That's what you can expect with a super low mileage 355. What really saved me financially was knowing people in the automotive and avionics business....this stuff is absolutely simple for them and they always liked exploring the electrical stuff.

 

I agree with this data ..... while not immune to the problem .... I believe fewer 98 - 99 suffered this valve guide fate .... as the factory made some design changes to the later models. IMO part of the reason valve guides failed ... was because excessive fuel affected guide lubrication ..... some of those factory changes to later models directly improved/stabilized fuel metering.

 

Agreed but if the valves are seating correctly then no compresssion would be getting past them either, or are you saying that worn guides prevent the valves seating properly hence compression leaks?

I do think the whole 355 valve guide issue has become a red herring in recent years, new stem seals and a regrind of the valves in their seats would resolve a lot of the problems without the expense of replacing all those guides on low miles motors.

 

I was told that the factory "steel guides"....the "fix" from the mothership in Maranello has the ability to"walk" or move down into the combustion chamber, hence the aftermarket design that utilizes a shoulder. Good old American ingenuity and marketing.....and way cheaper! Even with my having to spend Canadian Pesos, it's great value....even the aftermarket stainless valves are reasonable.

 

John, I hope you didn't pay $9,000 for a major. I know I sure didn't. Other owners that have had the heads done at the time of their service stated it wasn't as expensive as they thought it was.

It wasn't the cost that I was talking about with regards to the alarms, it was some of the headaches that some of the owners experienced getting them to work correctly. There have been quite of few threads on that topic on this forum over the years.

 

No...not me. I am going to do my own. But that is the going rate at Norwood. Had them quote me. But I actually have the service parts awaiting install in the garage.

Those alarms are fairly easy in my book. I honestly wouldn't trade them as I like keyless entry. Mine arrived with the red LED illuminated all the time, one fob that was weak. I pulled the alarm speaker and soldered in some remote rechargeable batteries..light fixed. Then over to gobble here on f chat for 3 new fobs. And that resolved the missing originals and weak fob. The top hydraulics were much more "fun"!

 

If you were in there, the guides are not the expensive part to replace. Its the valves that cost a nice penny if the valve is damaged. Excess guide clearance can cause seat and valve damage and compression loss. If you left the worn guides in there, you'd just wind back in the same predicament with compression loss.

 

Agreed again, but valve and valve seat damage would be obvious to even the most basic mechanic, the last thing you would then do in such instance is just replace the valve/seat and oil stem seal without replacing the guide.

What I am saying is an engine lacking compression does not strictly point to worn guides if the valves and seats are fine.

In that case the oil seals are more than likely causing excessive oil usage and or sticking rings which also affects the compression.

5 guides per cylinder, 8 cylinders is not a cheap job to do when it is not even the probable cause of any lack of compression/excess oil usage.

Gummed up rings and dried up oil seals will be the main culprits as per most engines suffering such problems, valve guides are a red herring that gets exploited with 355s

 

Agreed it is not the only possible cause of compression loss. You can determine pretty easy where the leak is though. A small cap of oil and a compression gauge is all it takes. I don't think the guide issue is a non issue. But also believe it is a low occurrence....especially when compared to headers failing for example.

 

I read through the replies and have one thing to add... If you are worried that you cannot afford a catastrophic failure in this car, then you should absolutely consider something else. While you can do all the testing in the world, all the pre-inspections, and other due diligence, the fact is that no one can guarantee that you will not have a catastrophic failure.

I am not arguing against doing your research and choosing wisely based on the experience of others, but the fact is that you cannot predict every possible failure, even under perfect conditions. Accept the fact that you have to accept a level of risk that comes with the reward. If the reward is not worth it, pick something else.

I love owning a Ferrari (F355) and mine has had its share (and more) of problems. Mine has been down for far too long now for a variety of reasons (mostly due to me personally and not the car itself). Remember, risk vs reward... Something that isn't broke at this point in a 20 year old car is likely to remain unbroke, generally (saving for normal wear and tear).

Best of luck.

M