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Would you consider this a 250 PF Speciale?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by djaffrey, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2004
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    I could have bought it three years ago for what looks like a lot less than even standard 250 PF's are sellling for today - yet alone a Speciale (if thats what it is).

    It is described in QV500 as a Speciale but I am not sure what and what does not qualify. Certainly it has a lot less obvious detailing that say Prince Bertil's #0853.

    Comments anyone...
     
  2. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

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  3. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    #3 Boudewijn, Apr 20, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, it is called "speciale". The S/N is 1751GT and it was sold at the Brooks Monaco auction 2000 when it was still red. Recently it was auctioned by Coys in the present metallic grey outfit.
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  4. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

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    Do you know what it sold for ?

    Cheers,

    Darren.
     
  5. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    Hi Darren,

    In 2000 it sold for GBP 39250.00, but I don't the result of the last sale.

    Best
    Boudewijn
     
  6. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Well it is pretty special. I would love to know what the price was when offered to you.
     
  7. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    I think this is just another hot rod or does someone seriously believe that Ferrari/Pininfarina would go out and buy Alfa parts to make a special?
    Besides I think (am not sure) that this type of bumper was not in production in 1959.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  8. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    What makes a 250 pf coupe a "speciale"?

    thanks,
     
  9. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

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    £50,000 GBP - bodywork was OK, engine was poor and interior was a mess, particulalry as it had been resprayed grey/green but not re-trimmed so the setas were black with red piping. Biggest issue for me was the mechanicals so I passed....kind of regret it now as it was/is a beautiful car.

    It was on sale at Coys Kensington but they couldn't move it, then it went back toa delaer in North of ENgland who sold it to a collector I beleive who intended to do a nut and bolt resto on it. We'll see.

    Regarding Kare's observations - I can't really comment but to the best of my knowledge is was "sold" as 100% Ferrari (and Coys were a reputable firm). The split bumpers were a one-off for the original Italian owner (as well as side vents and covered headlights). I guess he sent it to the carozzeria.

    Darren.
     
  10. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Do you know if Coys had *ANY* proof to back up their claims?

    I too would expect them to get details right, but then again this is not the first time I've been surpriced. It appears that the history they provided on 0627GT (250GT Boano ex-James Cagney rebodied as California Spyder replica) is also (?) bending the truth...

    Sounds to me like someone there does (did?) not really understand the essentials of working at a reputable auction firm...

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  11. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

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    Ah...you know about the pseudo 250 California as well. I have been to the showroom many times and seen that car - and you are correct that it is a rebodied Boano. They can't shift the car. It has now been on sale for 24 months and is currently with them and Paul Baber (who is a good guy).

    Darren.
     
  12. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    If anyone wants to dig out thier copy of SCM that covered the Nurburgring auction from August 8, 1998, I believe there's a photo of this car. I have the description only, which describes the car as being black/light tan and having just completed an outstanding restoration by Dino Cognolato. The description goes so far as to state that the car is equipped with driving lights behind the grille (standard feature for PF coupes) but, oddly, there's no mention of any special features.

    When offered at the Brooks Monaco auction on May 27, 2000 (now red/black with poor paint and peeeling chrome), it was accompanied by a "letter from Pininfarina authenticating the special features as original."

    Surely someone here has more info on this car than I, though. Gerald?
     
  13. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    I suspect that there may be a confusion; the car sold at Nürburgring may have been another.

    I also have to correct my earlier message: Alfa Giulietta Spyder bumpers were in production already in 1958 (at least). I still don't believe, however, that Pininfarina would have used such parts when building a special.

    But there is another problem; the headlight covers look like they have been taken from a Duetto Spyder...

    I don't have proper pictures of side vents; wonder what these parts were taken from and when...

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  14. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
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    #14 Boudewijn, Apr 22, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Kare, here are the side vents. What do you think?

    Best
    Boudewijn
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  15. Gerald Roush

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    Wayne,

    Here's a brief history of 1751 GT:

    Per Pininfarina records: Entrata telaio 22 Jan 1960; Scocca 27892; Consegna 08 Mar 1960; Destinazione Ingernizzi; Verniciatura grigio conchiglia MM 16249; Interno plastico e pelle nero 8500.

    Listed in 1972-1976 FOCUSA Rosters by Robert B. Stringer, California. Picture shows covered headlights, fender vents & two-piece front bumper.

    Listed in 1977 FOCUSA Roster by Walt Buerger, California.

    Offered 1978 by Donn Dunlap, Colorado Springs, CO. Red. One-off with covered headlamps. Perfect condition with new paint, tires, heads, etc. (AutoWeek 16 Jun 1978; FCA News Jun 1978).

    Owned 1979 by Dean M. Johnson, Laramie, WY. Purchased from Dunlap through Mike Dopudja. (Johnson telecon Oct 1979). Listed in 1980 FOCUSA Roster by Johnson. Offered 1981 by him. Very special--covered headlights, fender vents. Totally restored with red lacquer, Connolly leather, Wilton carpets, two sets of new wire wheels, many spare parts. (FCA News Jun 1981).

    Offered 1982 by Patrick in Colorado at 303-778-1766. One-off, with covered headlights & side vents. Red with black interior. Recent ground-up restoration. (FCA News Apr 1982).

    Offered 1983 by Ed Codahy, Denver, CO. Red with black leather. Believed to be one-off prototype. Typed 128F engine, disc brakes & electric overdrive. New Borranis. Full ground-up restoration including engine. (FML 0810).

    Purchased 16 Feb 1984 by Ronald Hetherington, Englewood, CO. (Michael Sheehan). Listed in 1986 FOCUSA Roster by Hetherington. Offered 1986 by him. Red with black interior. Unique features such as covered headlights, fender vents & split bumpers. (FML 1116).

    Purchased 12 Nov 1986 from Hetherington by European Auto Sales, Costa Mesa, CA. (Michael Sheehan).

    Purchased 20 Nov 1986 from European Auto by PBS SNC, Milan, Italy. (Michael Sheehan).

    Offered Aug 1998 Nurburgring Auction. High bid $76,407. Car sold.

    Offered May 2000 at Brooks Europe Auction, Monte Carlo, Monaco. Lot no. 160. Red with black interior & red piping. Visually maintained, largely original, 3 condition. Hammered sold at $51,192 plus commission of 14.17% = final price $58,445. Purported to have been delivered with special bodywork featuring covered headlights, front fender vents, two-piece bumpers. Outside plug engine, overdrive, electronic ignition, Nardi wheel, chrome Borranis. Poor paint prep with sanding marks visible. Bumper chrome peeling. Good panel fits & even gaps, good interior. Comes with letter from Pininfarina authenticating special features as original. (FML 2512).

    Offered Oct 2001 at Coys of Kensington Auction, London, UK. Lot no. 84. For details see catalog.

    So it has had the unusual features at least as far back as 1972.
     
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  16. Gerald Roush

    Gerald Roush Karting
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    Well, Kare, I for one can believe it. After all even some production Ferraris often used parts that were common on other makes of cars. For example the side marker lights on USA version Dino 246s is the same as those used on Fiat 124s. It was much cheaper to go that route than pay a manufacturer to tool up for a limited production run.
     
  17. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Gerald, thanks for the info.
     
  18. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Hi Gerald!

    Many Fiat/Alfa/Lancia parts were used when buiding early Ferraris. In later time they used even wider variety of bought parts mainly from Italian French and German makes, I have been told.

    I am, however, still very suspect that Pininfarina would have used recognizeable Alfa parts to make a special; they have "cheap" written on them, I would think. I cannot think of any Pininfarina built special, where I would have been able to recognize major design parts, such as bumpers. In late 50's everyone (as a manner of speech) would have recognized Giulietta bumpers... As far as I know, special tooling was not required when making bumpers; of course it would be needed when thousands were being manufactured...

    Side vent looks like it was built from scratch; needless to say it remind se of nothing I've seen on Pininfarina built cars so far.

    The headlight fairing looks very much like seen on 1017GT (built for Agnelli). I would think that headlights might be original, but would need proof to separate from Tom Meade-specials and such...

    I have notes that the car in Nürburgring auction would have been black/tan... This would definitely make clear it was another car, but maybe my notes are wrong?

    Does anyone know what exactly was authenticated on that letter from Pininfarina?

    Best wishes, Kare
     
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  19. Fellena

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    I
     
  20. Fellena

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    It was my car in the late 90 's , i went to pick it up from Monaco with a friend of mine witch I then bought it from ,
    Tony Howarth of Cheshire for 80k , the car was red and I had it for 6 years , I wasn"t sure about the originality of speciale modifications status , i confronted a garage in swizzerland aswell at the time but they did not confirm was original but it was a cheap ferrari 250 pf , and i liked the look of it , towards the end of my ownership i decided to bring it back to the original colour and left iit in the hands of a restorer in his little shop that had a wood log fire place in the garage and took is time in Knutsford Cheshire, to bring the car back oyster shell gray and have the ininteriour in oxblood red leather , the result was amazing , an umbelivable colour combination .
    I later swapped the car for an Aston Martin Volante 1981 LHD,, a Ferrari 355 challenger .
    I will post photos of the car when I find them.
     
  21. Fellena

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    By the way as if selling the pf "speciale " wasn't a mistake enough from same auction coys in Monaco I bought a porsche 959 Ruby red chassis number 007 prototype one of the test cars , ex Wasek Polak collection for 60 k !!!
    Who would have know ..
     
  22. Italian Tuneup

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    60k for 959 #007?
     
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  23. Fellena

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    Yes
     
  24. Fellena

    Fellena Rookie

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    When I owned it is could not have the expertee proving that the car was a speciale , in fact I was trying to sell the car to auto avenir in swizzerland , and he would have none of it .. hence I advenctually painted back to it's original colour and and swopped for other cars .
     
  25. Fellena

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    I drove it back from Monaco , will findo pictures and post it .. your description of the car it is more than accurate .
     

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