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Would You Give A Shop A Second Shot?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by MRONY, Apr 25, 2010.

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  1. MRONY

    MRONY Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2007
    707
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Mike O.
    #1 MRONY, Apr 25, 2010
    I sent my car (97 355, 13k miles) to an independent shop for a major last year. He recommended new headers. Went for the whole kit and kaboodle. Car came back, and 300-odd miles later, the thermostat went. Major flatbed costs, and a couple thousand more. Car came back after basically being in shop most of the summer and fall.

    Drove it a bit, and ran it around once a month or so through the winter to keep all lubed and supple. In heat and humidity controlled garage. Took it out for a 45 mile drive, 20 mile sin, th rear exhaust cam sprocket worked loose -- nut not properly torqued. Probably valve damage, who knows what else.

    Here's the question: I sent the car to the local dealer for the diagnosis. They've always been fair, if expensive. They're about to pull engine and see what's up, and price the repair.

    Independent was unrepentant and arrogant through the process until it became apparent that the problem was sloppy work by his shop. Now, he's backed it down a lot, though still arrogant. Basically telling me the protocol requires I give him a shot at fixing it at his cost. Wants to send a flatbed for it before the engine comes out and I get a diagnosis. Offers to have a tech from the dealer who lives near him come check on it... (why a dealer employee would do that is beyond me!)

    Now, my worry is that he does everything with minimum of work and materials -- this is a money giveback or loser for him. AND, the negligence makes me wonder about that thermo going so soon after the major/header work. Maybe I'd just be better off letting the dealer do the work, and suing the independent if that's what it comes to (I have the time and the means for this sort of thing.)

    In fairness, the car was running really nicely for the little bit I drove it after the first two sets of repairs. Didn't last long, and now I need at least a valve job, and possibly a new engine!

    What would YOU do?? Love to hear shop owner perspectives!!!
     
  2. Formula Uno

    Formula Uno F1 Veteran

    Oct 8, 2008
    6,659
    New York City
    #2 Formula Uno, Apr 25, 2010
    Arrogant even after he knows it's his fault?

    What "protocol" is he refering to...how about he does right by you this time at HIS total expense!

    He should be kissing your ass for now making a big splash out of his expensive screw-up.

    Who is he??
     
  3. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    Nov 5, 2003
    11,560
    san diego/charlotte
    #3 ferraripete, Apr 25, 2010
    you are in an area where you have many options. there is a great shop in Ct you might consider...not too far away and worth it based on the level of expertise.

    pcb
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    #4 2NA, Apr 25, 2010
    Almost no chance a failed thermostat was the shop's fault. There was a time when about a third from the local parts store were defective when new. I always test a new one on the stove in a pan of water but it's still no guarantee it won't go "belly up" next week.

    As far as the other problems (cam sprocket bolt came loose, timing slipped on one cam?), this was unfortunate and really inexcuseable but **** happens and people make mistakes. I have no idea who did the work or why they didn't get the bolt tight (along with some Loctite) but if it's not the typical result from this shop there's no reason not to give them a chance to make it right. The other place with the big Ferrari sign outside isn't magically better, it really comes down to the person that does the work. If the guy that worked on it before actually knows how to do the work and isn't an idiot (unknown) and hopes to resurrect his somewhat damaged reputation, he might get it right this time.

    You are the only one that can assess if the shop can be trusted to fix it right but it is probably the only way to get it done without an even bigger hassle and possibly a lot more money out of your pocket. Expecting one shop to pay the bill from another even more expensive place probably won't go easily.

    Around here the exotic car community is a really small world and most of us know each other. There aren't that many cars to fix and the owners don't have many choices of where to bring their cars. You get to know who the incompetent hacks are and likewise the customers that are more trouble than their worth.
     
  5. Carbonero

    Carbonero Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2009
    372
    Troll Free Zone
    Full Name:
    Bill
    #5 Carbonero, Apr 25, 2010
    Requires? REQUIRES? I think what's REQUIRED is the Independent giving serious thought to:

     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,274
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #6 Rifledriver, Apr 26, 2010
    The thermostat cannot be attributed to him but I am curious why it ran into a couple more thousand.

    I do agree with him that if there is a problem with the work he should be offered the chance to make it right but the attitude as described does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about his probable willingness to go to the time and expense to make you whole again. Nobody is perfect and sometimes something happens to a job but that is no way to handle it. I would not be eager to bring it back to him but from seeing these things in the past I would not be surprised to see the dealer run this bill to the moon.
     
  7. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    #7 parkerfe, Apr 26, 2010
    The law in most states gives the breaching party a reasonable opportunity to rectify a breach within a reasonable time. So, if your intentions are to later sue the shop for it's failure to properly repair, you may be required to allow it to rectify the repair first.
     
  8. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    #8 PV Dirk, Apr 26, 2010
    I don't know the shop you used. In the same situation with my local shop, I'd give them the opportunity to fix the issue.
     
  9. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,809
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    #9 blackbolt22, Apr 26, 2010
    I would give him the chance to fix it at his cost. Thank him.

    After that, goodbye.
     
  10. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #10 finnerty, Apr 26, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
    Really depends on the situation....

    Yes ----- If someone is willing to make it right, they should be given the chance.

    However, if you feel the overall professionalism / customer service was poor, I say forget them. The opportunity to "win" a customer (or a client, or even a patient) happens on that initial visit / service. If they don't put their best foot forward the first time, either they don't give a damn, or they are incapable of doing right ---- both are deal-breakers in my book.
     
  11. Easyrider7467

    Easyrider7467 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2005
    980
    Northen N.J.
    Full Name:
    John
    #11 Easyrider7467, Apr 26, 2010
    Mistake #1. Shotty work... (who knew??)

    Mistake #2. Arrogant after HIS customer is not pleased (to say least).

    Mistake #3. NOT taking ownership and responsibility for an UNsatisfied customer.

    Solution:
    Don't go back, too many mistakes.

    If he was Truly sorry his character would not be arrogant...

    To me, willingness to fix-it isnt taking ownership and responsibility. That goes without saying.
    HIS admittance and taking full responsibilty for NO charge would be..
     
  12. MRONY

    MRONY Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2007
    707
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Mike O.
    #12 MRONY, Apr 29, 2010
    In the face of clear evidence that the problem was his error, he has offered to do the repairs -- IF he agrees that it was his fault. I said he can go inspect the car. If he agrees to take responsibility, he can take the car to his shop. If not, I get it done elsewhere and sue him. Pretty straight forward. Also pretty straight forward -- a car that was running OK but needed work gets over $20k invested in a major ++, and blows up within a very short period thereafter is with very high probability the victim of a shop error. Especially when it's a bolt that HAD to be loosened during the major that subsequently worked loose again.

    So, we'll see if that offer translates to prompt action and repairs. If he also doesn't promise to get the car back to me with a few weeks, we'll still be at odds. It's F-car time here at last, and my baby is on the sidelines!!
     
  13. Mondog1

    Mondog1 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 27, 2006
    4,257
    Philly burbs
    Full Name:
    Robert
    #13 Mondog1, Apr 29, 2010
    You're a brave man to be trusting of this guy!

    IF he agrees that he screwed up and is willing to do the repairs, i'd make sure everything that he is going do is documentated in writing before, time frame consequences if he blows the agreed upon time frame,...

    Good luck

    Or just sue him and take it to a trustworthy garage if your gut says otherwise.
     

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