WOW, flat on its face. California prices have hit bottom..

Great post.


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These are 2010 models.
Nine years old.
They don’t have 500+ HP.
More like 440-460.
They depreciated about $12,000 per year.
Many people would be happy with that.

 

Absolutely, a great car to drive. I don’t see what is great in this post by the way, California are not 500 HP : 460 HP for California and 490 HP for California 30.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but there's no doubt that's a lot of car for the dough. $12K per annum depreciation seems like a bargain compared to newer F-cars, no?
T

 

Agreed. Put 50 mi on my 2010 today with the Mrs top up, and another 50 with my daughter, top down. Love it. Going for 100k. At 23k now. Will add to the stable one day though.


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They are not done depreciating. I wonder if the Cali will be the first Ferrari to not really plateau. I suspect it might very well be the case.

 

I think they are a great looking car. Not sure why no love. I mean looks of the mondial and 360 were pretty controversial but the cali looks good. Mechanically it is typical ferarri so that's not a minus either.

 

Drat! You're gaining on me, Andy! I need to put some serious miles on my Cali tomorrow morning.

To be honest, I find some comfort in depreciating values: it just makes it easier to drive, enjoy and not worry about trade in. When the time comes, I think I'm thisclose to convincing the wife that we really do need to own two Ferrari.

T

 

I recall reading somewhere that ca. 70% of new Cali owners were new to the brand. If what you say turns out to be the case, it could very well be that for the next generations, a used Cali is the first entree for a sizeable % to living the Ferrari dream.

Intetesting hypothesis ICP. I hope I keep my faculties long enough to see how it plays out.

T

 

I wasn't really talking about the looks. Not sure how you got to that from what I wrote?

 

Well you were not dissing the car. You just made a statement. I was me who talked about looks because that is one huge issue to speed depreciation. For example I owned once a mondial cabriolet QV. It was a great car. It was as good as any Ferrari and super reliable mechanically yet the looks and style really keep it at the bottom of the barrel. 4 seater Ferraris similarly lack value to their coupe cousins. The cali is a great looking car. It looks good with the top up or down which is extremely hard to do, yet Ferrari pulled it off. It has great mechanicals. I'm not sure why it gets so little love.

 

still don't want one...

would rather have an FF, and it's also not a looker, but hey it's got 4 full-sized seats, an NA V12 and a sound that will scare the livin hate out of haters.

california? not so much...not even a little.

 

I do think it is the case. While 70% of buyers were new to Ferrari, somehow it seems to me that Ferrari realized it wasn't quite there yet. This leads me to ask myself a few questions. Where did those customers go after their initial ownership experience, and why did Ferrari make so large changes going to the T?

I reckon a portion of the initial customers moved up into either 458's. F12'S or FF's. Quite a few moved to the T, and a few kept the originsl. But looking at the amount of Calis for sale, and to an extent the fact that many of them have multiple owners, I'm thinking "why". This brings me to the other initial question. Did Ferrari realize that the majority was looking for something different from a Ferrari than what the original had to offer? I think it is the case. I will be honest and say that I am in the group that don't really get the appeal. To me, it does seem like it wasn't what they tried to make it, and it did not feel complete or particularly fast.
I can't help but wondering if this is why so many moved on and why Ferrari made so large changes. Not talking about the turbos here, but rather the fact that Ferrari really updated the chassis/suspension and stiffness of the construction. Only case I think where this was not really as successful was the Cali T HS, which I think pretty much ruins the Cali T as it is way too harsh - dare I say a GT3 ride better.
Anyway, my thought is that this tendency of owners moving on or up, might indicate that the Cali will struggle on in the future to appeal to buyers of used sports GT cars? It seems to me that many try it, but few stick with it. This is why I think it has a bit of an uncertain future in the used car market. Couple that with the fact that it is a bit of a marmite car many within as well as outside the Ferrari comunity aren't that fond of. So if the car isn't as coveted, is there basis for a car that can reach a plateau above average sports GT value, or will it end up competing with the 20-40k usd Merc SL, Bentley and 911 market? I suspect it will. An example of how different the Cali is perceived by both potential owners, owners of exotics and enthusiasts, is the recent sale of the gated Cali. A few seemed to think it was to be priced alongside some of the high end unicorns, such as the gated 599's, 458 SA etc. fetching a price in the 500k-1Mil usd bracket. We're talking a gated Ferrari of which less than 10 was made. Normally that is indeed the basis for hugely inflated and ridiculous pricing. But yet the car sold for less than the cheapest high milage 458 Italias. This does leave little doubt as to the fact that the Cali is still struggling to win people over, and this is the basis of how well the car will do on the used market in the future.

This was not meant as a Cali bash-fest, but rather a view in earnest on what the future might hold and why.

 

There is no question the FF is a great capable car. But I don't think people find it particularly esthetic. If history repeats itself the FF will not hold value.

 

You know, if you take a step back and look at the general perception of the looks of the Cali, I think we can agree that the majority aren't that big on the Cali looks. I cannot be honest and at the same time say that I think it looks great. I think the rear is its biggest downfall. Front is not bad, but the high and bloated rear boot combined with those stacked tips, aren't exactly flowing or elegant. I think the redesign of the lower rear end along with the side vent channel that added a lower and sleeker speed line to the car, really made the comunity warm to the Cali T. It made the car seem lighter and more nimble somehow, and that is extremely important when your siblings are the 458, 488, F12 and even FF. In a world where status and prestige is part of the game, fitting in into the lineup is paramount. A Ferrari is as much a lifestyle item as it's a means of transportation, and somehow the looks and status of the original never quite managed to cut the mustard.

Even to this day, it still has the Maserati stigma to deal with as well. I'm not talking loud-mouth self-proclaimed enthusiasts who's actual closest encounter with a Ferrari was taking a selfie with a parked car on the street, turning them into instant aficionados. I'm talking multiple F-car owners, Ferrari dealer employees, technicians/mechanics etc. To this day, at the very least, I hear the Calt referred to as a Maserati by someone within our comunity at least once a month. That is the harsh reality of it unfortunately. There still is little love for the Cali. Some is down to looks and it not being as fast as its siblings, and part of it is still the Maserati stigma which I doubt it will ever get rid of.

 

Yeah..I can't argue with any of your impressions. I'm on Ferrari #6. It is a 550 Maranello and I'm pretty sure it is my last one. I have something about 3 pedal cars and I'm just not crazy about the look of the last few iterations of Ferrari V-12's.

 

Four kalis from the klassifieds. One sold, three for sale.

The market determines selling prices. There seems to be a buyer shortage affecting the liquidity of a lot of cars right now, not just kalis. These cars are all a bargain entry point for Ferrari ownership. All three cars below are currently under warranty as well. Time will tell, but at this point, these cars aren't being hit harder than a lot of comparably priced cars from other manufacturers.

These cars are all reasonably priced, IMAO. I hold no financial interest in any of these cars.

Sold 2010 Ferrari California Sold @ $85K

For Sale 2014 Ferrari California 30 (Handling Speciale) Tampa, FL Reduced to $135K

For Sale 2015 California T Nero Daytona warranty Reduced to $135K

For Sale 2017 California T HS Reduced to $165K

As always YMMV.

 

California prices are holding very well in Europe, and it sells. A good and well equipped California 30 is difficult to find and sells in average 10% higher than California’s. There are only 27 LHD California 30 for sale and 3 equipped with the rare handling package option. There are hundreds of California 460 HP for sale, a nicely equipped and low mileage California sells within days, especially if specced with carbon. I am searching a well specced California 30 for one year, difficult to find especially in a color different than black.

 

What do you feel the general perception is about the Portofino ?
Nicely performing, sharp looking, hardtop/convertible that is in demand or still a "wannabe" Ferrari ?

 

There are plenty of drivers -- like myself -- who prefer the California (I have a T now but had a Cali 30 before) over something like a 430/458/488/F8 -- and I have owned an F430 6MT. I like the open air aspect, which prevents me from moving to a 12-cylinder , and that it's easier to live with if you drive it a lot compared to the mid engine cars. Plenty of performance for me and there's nothing wrong with being a little under the radar -- mine is Daytona black and does not draw a lot of attention. I would love a 458 Spider, but I can't see driving it as much as I drive the Cali T, if it's not raining (or winter), I drive the Cali everywhere. When I had the F430 I was more reticent about driving it except on the back roads.

I think the California T solved a lot of the visual issues with the original California -- although I loved my Cali 30 -- it looks a little meaner from the front and the rear end was definitely cleaned up, and the performance is better -- 553 hp/557 lb-ft torque. The Cali 30 sounds better, which is not to say that the T sounds bad, it's just different, deeper, with the turbo noises. But I'd trade the performance for the sound.

My T is for sale but when I'm back in the market I will be looking for another T with the HS package. The Portofino really does not do it for me in the looks department, after seeing it on the showroom floor next the T, but the newest car will always be faster.

 

I don't think they are cheap. They bring more than 360s and just a little less than 430s with the same mileage.

Dave

 

It has definitely come into its own. It looks the part, and it performs the part. Even with the Cali T, the general perception became a lot more friendly towards it. The original Cali has the history with Maserati it has, and it is what it is. Fact is that it was fully developed as a Maserati, and at the end it was deemed too expensive. Ferrari was in charge of Maserati at the time, and thus chose to launch it as a Ferrari instead. There is of course more to this story, but that's the essence of it. I think another part of what gave it such a hard start in life, was the initial plan to not build it at the Ferrari factory in Maranello but rather in one of the other Maserati assembly plants. The fact that the Cali was then built in the new building in Maranello, rather than in the same old building as the mid engined V8 cars on the lower level and the V12 on the upper level, made things hard to swallow for some.

It's kind of interesting to see how both camps perceive the whole Maserati thing. Many Maserati die-hards seem to think Ferrari stole what should have been a great Maserati and thus to this day consider it a Maserati - but in a positive way.. On the contrary, many in the Ferrari camp seem to think that Ferrari slapped a badge on a lesser and cheaper car that should have been a Maserati. But especially with the Portofino, this seems to now be very much a thing of the past, and while the Porto is still the entry level Ferrari and thus don't carry the same prestige in the eyes of some, it is considered a Ferrari all across the board with no snarky Maserati remarks. I think Ferrari also did the car a favour by changing the name, as the Cali name sort of held on to the Maserati stigma.

So yes, I think people view it as a proper Ferrari. I've yet to hear one single person say otherwise.

 

Where I am in Europe, that's not what I see. Our dealer up here for example, are not super happy about getting a used Cali in, because they don't move out the door again. Not sure if things in Eastern Europe is different as I have zero bearing on that market. Spoke to a guy from Poland at a party in June, whom had just sold his Cali back then. He said it had been a bit painful in terms of depreciation. Can't remember the mileage or price, but I remember thinking that was low by any standard.

Have you considered importing a Cali 30 if you can't find one here in Europe with a spec you like? Asia, UAE etc.?

 

Truthfully I expect to see them dip even further. Main reason for this is there are a lot of them. I think maybe the Cali 30 will hold value better then any other California but I think there is a lot more room for them to slide yet, including the T.

I also think there are a lot of other cars competing for peoples dollars. I don’t think the California is a bad car, I’m a big fan, but I also don’t see a lot of people clamoring to get one either when you have the 458 and 488 which most younger people dream about as the iconic Ferrari.

The deprishiation crystal ball is always difficult to guess but it sure seems that once the Portofino came out and again when Portofino deliveries started prices fell significantly. That coupled with all of the other cars Ferrari, Mclaren, ect keep announcing widens the selection significantly driving prices down further. One big question a lot of my friends keep asking is when the new corvette starts being delivered what will happen to used exotic prices in general. If it goes the way most think I can’t see it being good for California’s even if it’s not in the same segment.